We Are Liars - A Pretty Little Liars Podcast

[00:00:00] SETH VARGAS: The whole thing is a previously on pretty little liars, but it lasts an hour and it throws a bunch of stuff. That's like, you're like, Oh, that wasn't previously on pretty little liars. You're making that up.

[00:00:35] ILISSA DALEY: All right. We are liars. Cheers to Seth for coming on for another episode with your Coke zero. I love a Coke zero. Absolutely. Delicious. It tastes just I should be a spokesperson. It tastes just like a Coke. Just like a Coke. I don't think I've ever had one. No, you're not really a soda person. I'm not a soda

[00:00:55] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: person.

[00:00:56] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: No.

[00:00:56] ILISSA DALEY: Delish. Anyway, welcome back to We Are [00:01:00] Liars for another episode. This is a very special episode for many reasons. Obviously, number one, we have Seth, which is just really the best. Yay. Hello, Seth. Thank you for having me back. We enjoy you, we love you, we can't wait to hear your commentary, and it's also special because it's Halloween.

[00:01:19] ILISSA DALEY: Yes. Which we teased to Michelle last week, and she was pumped. I was. Did this episode deliver, or not so much? She thought it was a little cringe. I laughed a lot. A lot of cringe. The

[00:01:31] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: acting was something else. And, but you know what? It was super fun. It was super fun and I love Halloween. So I am here for it.

[00:01:40] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I have a lot of things brewing and thoughts and who's who and, Mm hmm. I started before Allie died. So,

[00:01:50] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or did they?

[00:01:57] ILISSA DALEY: I'm just, everything I pose is, did it [00:02:00] happen or not? Right. I always have to keep Michelle on her toes. You definitely do. Always. I don't want to give too much away. Well,

[00:02:10] SETH VARGAS: you were not sharing the same spirit of the people in this episode. This episode is insane. It's crazy. There's so much stuff going on.

[00:02:17] SETH VARGAS: And if you know the full story, Full story. There's like even more going on. And

[00:02:23] ILISSA DALEY: so much it's, it's wild.

[00:02:25] SETH VARGAS: This is like maybe the worst episode of pretty little liars, which I feel like is saying something just like technically,

[00:02:35] ILISSA DALEY: yes, it's definitely. I said to Michelle, it feels like we were on the train of ABC family doing Halloween specials.

[00:02:42] ILISSA DALEY: That's what it felt like that. Yes. Yes. Still thoroughly enjoyed the ridiculousness of it. Yeah,

[00:02:49] SETH VARGAS: in a way, it feels like a bottle episode. Like it's like, hey, let's go back before anything means anything. While at the same time, every person who's on screen, [00:03:00] everything that is said, it's like, let's cram every reference and character and moment into one episode.

[00:03:07] SETH VARGAS: It, it, it's horrible. It's a

[00:03:10] ILISSA DALEY: mess. It's a mess. Okay, I'm glad, yeah,

[00:03:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: it's a mess. Because I was laughing a lot. I'm like, this is not good. This is not good, but I'm here for it, but it's not good. No.

[00:03:23] ILISSA DALEY: No. Let's tell them what we're talking about. Season 2, episode 13, titled The First Secret, aired October 19th, 2011, written by I'm Marlene King and directed by Dana Gonsalves.

[00:03:38] ILISSA DALEY: Sorry. Dana Gonzalez. No V in there. Gonzalez. The summary. It's a simple one. It's Halloween before Allison went missing and the friends hope to score an invite to Noel's Halloween party. That was the description from IMDB. Thank you for nothing. But, I mean, in a nutshell, that is

[00:03:58] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: the premise. That is it. [00:04:00]

[00:04:00] ILISSA DALEY: That is it.

[00:04:01] ILISSA DALEY: They scored the invite to Noel's Halloween party.

[00:04:03] SETH VARGAS: In the first two minutes, and that's why it's a bad description.

[00:04:08] ILISSA DALEY: We explore pretty much everything we already knew, and then some. Michelle's like, we already knew this. We don't need to watch. Well, I

[00:04:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: was just frustrated because we didn't get to Halloween fast enough, and I felt the whole, and not to jump ahead, but, and I'll sum it up, but we did not, I did not need to see Aria and Byron Baron go at it.

[00:04:27] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: We already know that. We know that she, he asked her to lie about like a waste of my time. I don't care unless he's a and this is going to come back in a couple of seasons.

[00:04:38] ILISSA DALEY: I don't know. It was fun to see Meredith though. I guess because we had that call back of her and him and obviously we see that exact scene that they had filmed in the pilot in this episode, which I

[00:04:51] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: did appreciate that.

[00:04:52] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: But We could have left it there. I don't think we could have had we didn't need that long conversation Yeah of life for me

[00:04:58] ILISSA DALEY: Right. He didn't give [00:05:00] baron byron any Depth, it was just already what we know is that he's a piece of shit and he stayed a piece of shit. Yeah Yeah, right So I don't know why we did that but also to show that Aria was sad didn't want to go to the Halloween party But we did this anyway, so she could have

[00:05:17] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: been sad just from catching them Right.

[00:05:21] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I don't want to deal with whatever. Okay. All right

[00:05:23] ILISSA DALEY: So Seth a few questions for you the first one I have from Brit since you're our movie guy if a girl if each girl was a Halloween or horror movie Which would they be? And she said feel free to send this to him earlier so he can think about it I didn't want to do that.

[00:05:38] ILISSA DALEY: I want you to do. Oh, oh no

[00:05:40] SETH VARGAS: Oh, no,

[00:05:43] ILISSA DALEY: I just wanted to know what your gut was telling you Okay, so Gee willikers.

[00:05:50] SETH VARGAS: Well, first of all, hello Brit. How are you? Thank you for your question If you've ever wondered what it sounds like when [00:06:00] someone is stalling This is what it

[00:06:03] ILISSA DALEY: is. Yeah, but you're so good at it. Um,

[00:06:06] SETH VARGAS: I don't, I don't know that I have a separate horror movie for each of the girls.

[00:06:12] SETH VARGAS: I do have a breakdown of all of their Halloween costumes and how it relates to their characters.

[00:06:18] ILISSA DALEY: Well, I'm sorry, let's do that now. Okay. Okay.

[00:06:21] SETH VARGAS: Let's do that now. Okay. All right. So, sorry, Britt. I will send in a list that will get shared with you. I promise.

[00:06:32] ILISSA DALEY: Thank you. Yeah. We'll post it on Patreon. For

[00:06:34] SETH VARGAS: sure.

[00:06:35] SETH VARGAS: Okay. So, the costumes. Right? First off, one of the reasons why this episode is fun is because we get Allie walking around talking, doing her thing. Right? And not just in momentary flashbacks, but she's throughout the whole episode. It's fun and dumb and her dynamic with the girls makes absolutely no sense.

[00:06:59] SETH VARGAS: Right. [00:07:00] Uh, yes. So her costume, she's Lady Gaga, right? Lady G. Yeah, Lady G, right? So Gaga's first album was called The Fame, 2007. This episode's taking place in 2008, right? And the second single off of The Fame, do you guys remember what it was? It wasn't just this. That's right, ladies and gentlemen. Well, that was the first single.

[00:07:29] SETH VARGAS: The second single was Poker Face. Poker Face. And if you read through the lyrics, it is a dark and twisted tale of a woman who lies and hides behind many different things. I pulled some of the lyrics. It says, I want to roll with him. A hard pair we will be. A little gambling is fun when you're with me.

[00:07:51] SETH VARGAS: Russian roulette is not the same without a gun. And baby, when it's love, If it's not rough, it [00:08:00] isn't fun. And if that doesn't sound like Allison DeLaurentis,

[00:08:04] ILISSA DALEY: I don't know what does. Thank you. I So this show is that deep then? Oh, definitely.

[00:08:11] SETH VARGAS: Oh, yes. Of course. Absolutely.

[00:08:14] ILISSA DALEY: It's such just very

[00:08:16] SETH VARGAS: I have about two hours worth of analysis on this whole episode, so just

[00:08:20] ILISSA DALEY: get ready.

[00:08:21] ILISSA DALEY: Okay, what

[00:08:22] SETH VARGAS: who's next? Okay, so Arya, Arya comes as a witch. Um, a witch is someone who's adept in both clairvoyance, uh, or a seer, and a big part of this episode is that Arya sees the truth about her parents and her family. Second, Emily, uh, Ben, who sucks, Ben wants her to be a cop, right? And she does not I suck to cop.

[00:08:49] SETH VARGAS: Yes, she doesn't want to be a cop. She wants to be a Native American. This is representative of her bucking her conservative family and her, you know, heterosexual boyfriend and wanting to be [00:09:00] something that's way more free, right? Spencer, well, I'll say Spencer, Hannah, Hannah is Britney Spears. And this one took me a little bit, but then I remembered that in 2007, Britney Spears shoplifted from two different stores.

[00:09:15] SETH VARGAS: One was a wig and one was, and one was a lighter. And so that's the Hannah connection. And then Spencer, all I will say is Spencer gives a description of Mary queen of Scots, right? When they don't know who she is. And. We know that Spencer is in an election and so she's like a head of state and there is that but like big like Long term stuff.

[00:09:43] SETH VARGAS: This isn't a spoiler for this episode nothing that she says in the episode is what I'm about to say So don't like freak out or anything but if you're not super familiar with Mary Queen of Scots and you don't want spoilers for like the entire structure of this show Do not read [00:10:00] about Mary Queen of Scots.

[00:10:01] SETH VARGAS: But if you do know about this show, read about her. There are, there's ton of weird parallels that they're putting in. Here in season two that are playing out way later in the show. Thank you. Wild stuff. Wild, wild stuff. So that's it. That's my ten minute response

[00:10:21] to

[00:10:21] ILISSA DALEY: Brit's question. What do you make of Nolkan as a gynecologist?

[00:10:25] ILISSA DALEY: Um, he's a freak? What could possibly be? Yeah, he's a fucking freak.

[00:10:30] SETH VARGAS: I hate him. Nolkan sucks in this episode. When he scares Allie, he doesn't scare her. Like, he just straight up chokes her for several seconds.

[00:10:41] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah, that went on for a while. Michelle's like, this went on for too long. Hate

[00:10:44] SETH VARGAS: him, hate him so much.

[00:10:46] ILISSA DALEY: Everyone wanted to know, I'm just gonna get it off, get it off here. Let's get it off. What was everyone's favorite Halloween costume in the episode? Mine was Jenna. [00:11:00] Mine was Mona

[00:11:01] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: because I've always wanted to be Catwoman.

[00:11:03] ILISSA DALEY: Mona's was so good. I did love Mona's

[00:11:06] SETH VARGAS: too. Mona's is good and Mona's is the Halle Berry Catwoman?

[00:11:11] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. Yes. Um, which I thought was a pretty funny choice, um, considering that that movie was like a total flop. And Mona in this episode is not like the cool Mona that we get. In the later seasons, she's more like reserved, they're looking down on her, and so for her to be that catwoman, I thought was a pretty interesting choice.

[00:11:31] SETH VARGAS: I, I think Jenna's costume looks great, I just hate Jenna without glasses on, I was like, who are you? Like, I don't, I don't, like, I'm having like face blindness and also repulsion, and not that you're an ugly person, you're a beautiful human being, but you cannot be Jenna without the big glasses, I'm

[00:11:48] ILISSA DALEY: sorry.

[00:11:48] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Don't show it to me. It's such an age difference between her and Allie. It's like 10 years plus. It's 10 plus. And that is, that throws you off a [00:12:00] lot because she's a gorgeous, hot, very much an adult.

[00:12:03] ILISSA DALEY: 27 years

[00:12:04] SETH VARGAS: old here. The cleavage in the Halloween store with the, I'm just like, you are. A woman who might be older than me.

[00:12:17] SETH VARGAS: Who's like, Oh, I'm going to a costume party at no cons. It's ridiculous.

[00:12:22] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: That's right. She's like older than everybody. It feels.

[00:12:25] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah.

[00:12:26] SETH VARGAS: But I think you can enjoy this show. If you're going to be held down by like any. Rules of logic.

[00:12:33] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: You can't. We say it every week. Right.

[00:12:35] ILISSA DALEY: Let the logic go. Because what we're watching here, they're at the ripe age of 14 years old.

[00:12:41] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Right. The ripe age of 14. It's, and I never realized that watching this back a million times, but when we're analyzing it now in 2024, I'm like, these girls are supposed to be 14 years old. Yeah. Something is not connecting here. Now,

[00:12:57] SETH VARGAS: refresh my memory. How old is Toby?

[00:12:59] ILISSA DALEY: [00:13:00] Toby is their age, too.

[00:13:01] SETH VARGAS: Okay, because his arm hair, I don't know if you guys noticed, his arm hair as he is unloading that truck.

[00:13:07] SETH VARGAS: He's a bruin. It is like Robin Williams, man. And I was like, you can put him in the shirt, you can put him in the longer hair, but man, that arm hair in the sun is glistening. It was

[00:13:20] ILISSA DALEY: gleaming, yes. It definitely was. Michelle didn't notice that. I did not notice that.

[00:13:24] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: You gotta go back and check it out. Yeah, I'll have to go back just for the arm hair.

[00:13:30] ILISSA DALEY: Right? Yeah. Alright. Mike says, Seth, how would you rate this episode? Is it an episode, a skepiscode, skepisode? Or a film. Wow. Okay. Well, like a stethoscope.

[00:13:44] SETH VARGAS: Thank you, Mike, for the question. And I think I understand what you're saying a little bit, right? Yeah. This is horrible. Like I said, I think that this is, I guess I gonna

[00:13:55] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: call, this is a sh

[00:13:55] ILISSA DALEY: movie.

[00:13:56] ILISSA DALEY: This is a shmo. This Yes, this, this is a, A episode. It's a [00:14:00] episode unlike every

[00:14:01] SETH VARGAS: level. Apart from the lore building and like the reestablishing of characters, roles, and then like the the stuff that they're preparing you for for later on. That's all like through the roof. That's that's just like they're like, I'm hitting you with everything.

[00:14:25] SETH VARGAS: But like almost every other aspect of this. Technically, it's a disaster. It is the opening scene, which is shot different. Um, where Allie's telling the story about the, the two girls, which by the way, is exactly not, not, not a hundred percent exactly, but this is the plot of 1978. It's Halloween. Michael Myers kills his sister, um, on Halloween.

[00:14:53] SETH VARGAS: He's then sent to an asylum where he escapes two days before Halloween. And. Then he comes [00:15:00] back to kill trick or treaters. It's like everything that Allie is saying to this little boy. It's exactly Halloween. The oversized chef's knife is Michael Myers weapon of choice. She stabs it into a pumpkin, which is synonymous with the film series Halloween.

[00:15:15] SETH VARGAS: Anyway, all that to be said, it looks horrible. The transitions between the two. The scene where Hannah is watching a horror movie. Yeah. What is this horror movie? An eyeball? One eyeball?

[00:15:26] ILISSA DALEY: Like, that's so scary to her.

[00:15:29] SETH VARGAS: And then she picks up and she's like, Hello? Hello? And it's just Allie! Just say hello! It's a normal phone call!

[00:15:37] SETH VARGAS: I'm yelling, I'm sorry. This episode sucks.

[00:15:40] ILISSA DALEY: I know, you were so heated. Yeah, I was very heated. I

[00:15:45] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: mean, I also, I was laughing during that. I'm like, this is really bad acting. Yes, yes. It's so bad! But it's like, are we doing this because we're acting younger? Like this is,

[00:15:56] ILISSA DALEY: this has to be an over, it's like

[00:15:59] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: [00:16:00] over exaggerated because we're supposed to be acting younger and this is the way I act young for this character.

[00:16:05] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Right.

[00:16:07] ILISSA DALEY: Right. It

[00:16:07] SETH VARGAS: truly feels like they were like, all right guys, you guys are going to be part of the 13 nights of Halloween. We need an episode for it. And they were like, just me. That's

[00:16:14] ILISSA DALEY: exactly how I feel. Just throw it together.

[00:16:16] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Let me ask you guys something. Seth, you said it. Where, you know, besides the messiness of it all, it's giving us so much, right?

[00:16:24] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: They're building us up. Does this pay off?

[00:16:30] ILISSA DALEY: Yes. What they're saying, this

[00:16:32] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: actually comes through?

[00:16:33] SETH VARGAS: Maybe. Sorry, I have to do what Lyss does.

[00:16:36] ILISSA DALEY: No, I will give, I will give her confirmation of things I feel are necessary. Yes.

[00:16:41] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Okay. All right. Then that, then that's good. There's so many

[00:16:45] ILISSA DALEY: Easter eggs that now that I've set, I mean, Seth has watched, I've watched multiple times knowing what, you know, seeing this is like, oh, there's so many things.

[00:16:57] ILISSA DALEY: And um, [00:17:00] just like the story of the twins, like that's like, why do twins? Like everything, it's just, everything's very specific that you're like. Oh, things are just kind of like, just kind of,

[00:17:15] SETH VARGAS: and, and make sense when you go home, read the Mary Queen of Scots, Wikipedia page, Michelle don't do that, but you will see several things really like, Oh, they're really just laying the whole thing out

[00:17:28] ILISSA DALEY: there.

[00:17:29] ILISSA DALEY: Okay. Yeah. Well, speaking of Mary Queen of Scots, let's go into Spencer. I'm going to just sum up everyone's kind of little synopsis and then we'll go to the party. So in this flashback episode, we have Spencer trying to solidify her spot as class president. God is she unbearable in this. The glasses make her even 10 times more annoying than she normally is.

[00:17:52] ILISSA DALEY: And this is coming from someone who loves Spencer. I find her to be very unbearable. Spencer's just going. Yeah, but as of late. We've

[00:17:58] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: been Spencer's.

[00:17:58] My

[00:17:59] SETH VARGAS: girls getting really [00:18:00] annoyed with her. She's my only girl

[00:18:01] ILISSA DALEY: really? She's my only girl. Is she your favorite, your crush?

[00:18:04] SETH VARGAS: She's, she's not my crush. I'm not crushing on 14-year-old character Spencer in this

[00:18:08] ILISSA DALEY: sense.

[00:18:09] ILISSA DALEY: Well, she's like 21 in real life, right? Right. .

[00:18:12] SETH VARGAS: She is, I think the only one who looks younger in the flashbacks. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I mean, the headband is doing a lot. Everyone else looks exactly the same, but yeah. Spencer. Oh my god, they

[00:18:25] ILISSA DALEY: already invited

[00:18:27] SETH VARGAS: half the club who did who cares? I know we had to you're having a party for becoming class

[00:18:33] ILISSA DALEY: president your parents are doing

[00:18:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: this is so weird Why do they care

[00:18:37] ILISSA DALEY: this much?

[00:18:38] ILISSA DALEY: I hate it. I think we're supposed to understand It's, it's, we're, we hear this on the show all the time, the Hastings are really, really overbearing. They're very specific with what they want or what they think is right or what the public perceives them as. We hear it, but we don't actually really see it that much.

[00:18:58] ILISSA DALEY: We are now more with [00:19:00] Peter and like, what's happening and him wanting to hide who they are. But, you don't see it first hand and even though they're not even in the episode, you can see the fear in Spencer. And she says, Well, I don't blame Melissa for acting this way. She lives in this house, too. Like, the both of them kind of have this, like, trauma bond of their parents.

[00:19:19] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. And because Melissa is older, she deals with it a certain way, and Spencer deals with hers a certain way. And Melissa And her relationship is a little bit different here. They definitely have a little bit of a closer relationship and obviously we know what happens later on. So I find, I found that it was interesting for Spencer to have such a mature thought of like, well we both live in the same house, I understand why we are the way we are.

[00:19:46] ILISSA DALEY: Then, as opposed to now where we are and like she, I don't know, I feel like she regressed with that thought process. Right. Wait, Spencer regressed? Yeah, like in 2008, she's like, oh, we are the same, [00:20:00] we have the same household, but now, I mean, but look at everything she went through. So, so much has happened to the two sisters.

[00:20:06] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. Yeah. I'd seen the three of them. Um,

[00:20:11] ILISSA DALEY: and also, he did him with that, why he's blue to

[00:20:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: that camera, it's just like, what are the parents gaining by her winning class president? Like

[00:20:22] ILISSA DALEY: what's social

[00:20:23] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: status, if she becomes class president, that's a social

[00:20:25] ILISSA DALEY: status thing to gain. Well I guess, you know, can get her into Harvard or Yale or Princeton and it's just something that they want.

[00:20:33] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah, sure. That Melissa probably had. Right. All

[00:20:36] SETH VARGAS: I was going to say, if Melissa had said, now when I won class president. Right, right. And so it's expected, but yeah, the, the Ian thing, I'm sorry, I like lost my mind for a second. It's, it's like, when you have a character. And you do a flash forward or flashback and you want to have little signals for the audience to be like, see, it's still this [00:21:00] person like someone recently was talking about the film Atonement and how the movie starts with Saoirse Ronan as like an 11 year old girl.

[00:21:07] SETH VARGAS: She's got this Bob and then they show her middle aged same haircut and then they show her 75 years old same haircut. And it's like, so it's like Ian, it's like, Hey, Ian, camera. Remember that whole thing? He's got the camera in like the two seconds we see him. And that's this episode over and over. What's, what's Jenna like?

[00:21:29] SETH VARGAS: She gets what she wants. What is

[00:21:32] ILISSA DALEY: that? What does that mean? Well, we know she gets what she wants.

[00:21:37] SETH VARGAS: Right. And that's, we got, we were like, Oh yeah, that is Jenna. Oh yeah. But it's horrible writing. Yeah.

[00:21:44] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I'll save it. And we're on track. We're talking about Spencer. I'll

[00:21:47] ILISSA DALEY: save it. Okay, you store it. Yep, storing. You store it.

[00:21:51] ILISSA DALEY: All right, so speaking of Melissa and Ian, we have this, these video, him videotaping, which we know obviously is very specific to his character. [00:22:00] And Alison And him like he's not really interested. It seems right to me. It doesn't seem like he is, but she's very much interested in him. And obviously we know what happens with them later on, but Allison really does not like Melissa.

[00:22:17] ILISSA DALEY: And I'm like, is she just jealous? Right. Or is she, is she trying to like keep an eye out for her friend? I feel like obviously it's both right. But mostly because she's jealous. She doesn't like Melissa. Yeah, I think she just likes to shit stir. I don't know, Allie sucks. She's so awful. Awful,

[00:22:38] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: but, I, I, I don't know, Ian, to me, was into Allie, like, we could see it.

[00:22:44] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I picked that out. I was like, you're creepy, the way he was Mm mm. Well.

[00:22:50] SETH VARGAS: She's telling an enthralling story about how her mother, grandmother, is a sweater model, but she smells weird and she moved to Georgia. I don't have to [00:23:00] see her that

[00:23:00] ILISSA DALEY: often. Who wouldn't fall in love? Bro,

[00:23:04] SETH VARGAS: right. Unless, you know, all like and even some of the stuff with Melissa and.

[00:23:09] SETH VARGAS: It's like it's just oh my god. It's so bad this episode. The dialogue is so yeah They're driving home. Every line of dialogue is connected. Yes, it's all connected to stuff But when you just watch it as an episode, you're like, huh? Oh

[00:23:25] ILISSA DALEY: god. Yeah, I feel like they should have just shown us How it all is connected as opposed to us needing to hear it over and over again.

[00:23:33] ILISSA DALEY: We know Allie's grandma lives in Georgia. We know she's old. We know you don't see her. We know Ian's attracted to you. We know, like, Right. We know he has a camera. Like, all the, we just need to see it. Don't just shh about it.

[00:23:46] SETH VARGAS: Now, Liss, like, you, you know ahead. Yeah. Doesn't this episode Make everything else, like, why would they, why would all the characters not be [00:24:00] constantly referring back to this date and time when, like, supposedly every single thing happened that, like, started Every single story, right?

[00:24:12] SETH VARGAS: Like

[00:24:12] ILISSA DALEY: Halloween, this is the most

[00:24:14] SETH VARGAS: important single day. Yes. In the show's history suddenly. And like that's revisionist stuff. That's the problem with it. Like they dig way too deep on on this. They make it too important instead of it just showing hanging out and showing

[00:24:29] ILISSA DALEY: dynamics, right? I would have loved if we just had the beginnings of Ali with the stalker and tax and things, and we didn't need to see All of Arya's history, all of Spencer and Melissa's stuff, all of Hannah and her mother and Darren, like Election

[00:24:46] SETH VARGAS: rigging!

[00:24:46] ILISSA DALEY: What do we need? We don't need any of the fluff! We could have just had fun spookiness with a hint of Allie's getting these weird texts, Allie's being stalked, where is that coming from? Right, that's the interesting parts. The things that [00:25:00] we don't know about Alyson. That's all we need to know here. That's what I'm saying.

[00:25:05] ILISSA DALEY: Show me more of that. Yes, yes, let's reel it back in. All right. So I'm sorry because I'm sorry so heated about

[00:25:13] SETH VARGAS: I'm like I watched this episode three times So

[00:25:23] ILISSA DALEY: as you said Spencer wants to win the election so therefore Ali tells her it's not really looking good We don't really know how she knows this And she also, she comes in, she's like, something has happened and it looks like it's so dramatic and serious that she's going to tell Spencer about Aria's dad, right?

[00:25:41] ILISSA DALEY: But she says, no, the election is, you know, not going your way. I thought you were a shoo in, but you're not. And this is when Spencer like literally starts crying about it. And I'm trying to feel badly for her because I'm trying to put myself in a parent who literally put so much pressure on their child that they're scared to lose.

[00:25:57] ILISSA DALEY: And. That's exactly what's happening to her [00:26:00] there. So Allie says, I'll help you. So she takes two votes, I guess, out of someone else's, you know, so that Spencer can win. All right. So then we have Allie. In school saying that she helps Spencer like she's very particular about what she says in front of the girls I feel like she's always thinking about how she can kind of like pull the strings Like it seems like it's a friendly thing.

[00:26:29] ILISSA DALEY: But also it's so malicious to me. It's control It's such a control thing where she's like, hey Spencer. Yeah, you know you won the election Oh, I helped her with her speech. Aria. How's your mom doing? And everyone's like what's wrong with her mom? Like she's just And I don't know why, like, do we learn

[00:26:47] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: more of how Allie became Allie?

[00:26:49] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: How she became Regina George? How she became Queen Bee?

[00:26:52] ILISSA DALEY: Yes, but I don't really remember when we get like, maybe more if like Jessica [00:27:00] comes into town like just the things, yeah, like her parents, or like Jason recounting, I don't really remember exactly when we figure out more about her. I mean, she's always, we're having flashbacks, but I don't remember, like, specifically.

[00:27:14] SETH VARGAS: This would have been prime time to do all of that, but you can't because the wheels are already turning. Like Michelle said at the top, it's like, Oh, A predates the show.

[00:27:32] SETH VARGAS: We're rewriting like the whole thing. And like every character. Is so suspicious and like, it also kind of does away with some of the drama, like the buildup of the first episode, because you, you think this is like, you know, Twin Peaks, the discovery of, uh, Laura Palmer is the thing that sets off everything in this town and with.

[00:27:58] SETH VARGAS: Pretty Little Liars, it's like, [00:28:00] oh, we started getting these weird text messages. But now we go back in time, it's like, oh no, the town was always weird. Everyone was always creepy. There was always the haunted house with masks and knives and stalkers. So you're just like, this is all just another day in their life.

[00:28:20] ILISSA DALEY: Like, was this? The

[00:28:22] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: plan all along are where the writers, like you guys joked, we need to do a Halloween episode, scramble, let's connect, connect, connect. That's what it feels

[00:28:31] ILISSA DALEY: like. I think it's probably the latter, right? Like the, yeah, the ABC family at the time was like, we need to do something fun. I love the 13 Days of Halloween.

[00:28:42] ILISSA DALEY: Me too, I always loved that. But, like I teased to Michelle last week, after this, they don't come back until January for the next part of the show. And it kind of gets like a little bit of a different, you know, the storyline changes a little bit, obviously. We need to change something up. But, [00:29:00] I don't I'm not sure if this was exactly what they had in mind the whole time or they just felt like they needed to add it.

[00:29:08] ILISSA DALEY: That's even

[00:29:09] SETH VARGAS: more frustrating because of the way that the last episode ends, you know, them under investigation and the shovel and so you think, okay, we're going to learn something next week and then it's like, nope, we're going back in time and then see you in two months.

[00:29:24] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah, I remember being like just any little bit we could get at the time.

[00:29:29] ILISSA DALEY: All right, let's go over to Emily. So in the beginning of this episode, as we said, we see Emily approach Toby, which I'm like, were they always friends? No,

[00:29:43] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: they weren't. So this is weird to me. Yeah,

[00:29:46] ILISSA DALEY: they weren't always friends. I mean, maybe they were close proximity to being neighbors, but. That's about it. So she's like, Oh, your mom, your dad got remarried.

[00:29:57] ILISSA DALEY: Oh, it's been a year since your mom passed away. And now you're going to [00:30:00] get a step sister. Isn't that soon? Right? Like the things that she like really wouldn't know about him. She does. It just didn't make sense. We didn't, mm mm, mm mm. We could have just seen Jenna coming into town with Toby, but I guess we needed the foreshadowing before we even meet her.

[00:30:16] ILISSA DALEY: Like, Toby's setting up. She gets what she wants, and here's a snow globe. Our snow globes! I

[00:30:23] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: laughed, oh my god.

[00:30:24] SETH VARGAS: Dude, get

[00:30:24] ILISSA DALEY: out of here. The snow globes! I guess we, you know, it was nice to see Toby and, like, know that he was always there too, but we didn't really need the Emily of it all scene. Like, it just didn't.

[00:30:36] ILISSA DALEY: Need to be there, but we do have this scene in school where Emily is still dating Ben And then they're at the lunch table and again them being 14 is really problematic for me here Yeah, because Ben is telling everyone that the two of them had sex at 14 years old You know, to [00:31:00] each their own, but that's, uh, like a little baby.

[00:31:03] ILISSA DALEY: It's a little baby. It is a baby. And she's okay with him saying that because she makes the other girls believe that it's true at that moment. And they're all like, oh, Emily, bad girl. I understand

[00:31:18] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Emily's

[00:31:19] SETH VARGAS: belief. Well, it makes sense why, because she's hiding her identity. Right. And so she's like, sure, yeah, tell whoever you want, you know?

[00:31:26] ILISSA DALEY: Right, right. Allison says twice, like, I can't figure you out. Yep. Yep. Yep. You're very interesting to me, like something, I can't pinpoint what it is, but you're like, surprising me. And then she tells Ali later on, I don't need the pill because I didn't actually have sex with Ben. And it's okay that he's saying that because eventually we'll do it.

[00:31:46] ILISSA DALEY: And then everyone will just think that I've been doing it this whole time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:52] SETH VARGAS: It's sad. That was another like, like weird layer that it just, and again, I understand. But [00:32:00] like, Allie being like, Oh, I know a doctor who you can see. It's like, Allie, you have all these connections? You're a 14 year old kid.

[00:32:07] SETH VARGAS: Like, okay, anyway. But yeah, it's just making her like all powerful. This

[00:32:13] ILISSA DALEY: character. Yeah, right. If anyone needs anything, they always can go to Allie. Because she's always got a friend on

[00:32:20] SETH VARGAS: the election committee. And she's got a doctor who will give you the pill with no

[00:32:24] ILISSA DALEY: parents. Won't tell their parents about their child going on birth control.

[00:32:29] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Yeah. Alright, then we have Aria who goes to visit her dad at Hollis, this whole entire plot that we already know, and of course we need to do the invisible string, right, of it all, of Taylor, of her, Taylor, of her bumping into Ezra. We needed to have Ian for that sliver of a second to show that he was always there, always potentially gonna be in her life.

[00:32:52] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Grr. It was nice not to have to deal with Ezra, I have to be honest. Oh, of course. Yes, absolutely. Of course. But we didn't need that. We [00:33:00] didn't need it. But he was a student at Hollis. He seems to be around Meredith's age. Meredith, who's lying on Byron's leather couch without shoes on, which is gross to me.

[00:33:09] ILISSA DALEY: So gross. I'm so

[00:33:10] SETH VARGAS: glad. So gross. You thought that up. I mean, good that no shoes. I wrote in, like, capital letters with a hundred exclamation points. No shoes. No socks. No socks. Like, no shoes. No socks.

[00:33:21] ILISSA DALEY: No socks on the leather couch.

[00:33:23] SETH VARGAS: Ew. If I was in, like, my best friend's house, I don't think I'd have my shoes on.

[00:33:27] SETH VARGAS: I mean, I don't think I'd have my

[00:33:28] ILISSA DALEY: feet on their couch. Yeah. But no socks. Yeah, it frustrated me to see your bare, the bare toe feet going on on the couch. Yeah, no No Meredith. And Maritha's just like, she doesn't even act like surprised that Arya comes in. She's just like, oh, he's not in. And then Baron comes in and he plays it, oh, I'm the cool teacher and all the kids come in here.

[00:33:50] ILISSA DALEY: And Arya's like, huh. She thinks it's weird, but she doesn't think too much into it, I guess, because at this point in her life, why wouldn't she trust her father? [00:34:00] Sure, you're not going to assume you're You wouldn't think anything of it. Your dad is

[00:34:02] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: sleeping with A student.

[00:34:04] ILISSA DALEY: Right. And then, of course, we see the exact scene we saw in the pilot of them hooking up in Arya and Alyson seeing.

[00:34:12] ILISSA DALEY: And the aftermath of that, which is basically what we expected, right? Like Byron says, I would hope you wouldn't tell your mom, but also it's your choice. And, Oh, it's so bad. Yeah. And I was going to end it anyway. This was the tail end of it. And Arya's like, how do I know that's for sure? Like, if I didn't catch you, how would I know that you would stop things?

[00:34:32] ILISSA DALEY: And she's dropping out of his class. And so she decides, as we know, to keep his secret. Allie does not like that though. Ali's like, no, you need to tell your mom. Are they gonna get divorced? What's happening? So she's meddling in that. And then we have 2008 Ashley, very post Tom leaving her for Isabel. I think, yeah.

[00:34:55] ILISSA DALEY: Tom, is this is going for Isabel? This is going for Isabel. The [00:35:00] same Isabelle. They don't say Isabelle, but Hannah says that she's got a fat ass or something nasty. Yeah, she says comments about her.

[00:35:07] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. Which, how times have changed. My wife was like, Wow, do you remember when having a large butt was

[00:35:14] ILISSA DALEY: bad?

[00:35:15] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Right. Well, not to mention that they made Ashley literally wear a pillow around her stomach the entire episode. Well, what the hell

[00:35:25] SETH VARGAS: looks in some of the flashbacks she's wearing what looks more like a fat suit. It's more distributed. She straight up looks pregnant in one of the hallway scenes like she just there's nothing a pillow under her stomach.

[00:35:42] SETH VARGAS: And I don't remember the the style of dress. It had like the, the rope or the ribbon or whatever, right under the bust. Yeah. It's just ribbon and then pillow. It's, it's awful. It looks, and that's why I said like, on like every [00:36:00] technical level, this episode sucks.

[00:36:04] ILISSA DALEY: Right. It doesn't, it's not even remotely believable.

[00:36:08] ILISSA DALEY: No. Because obviously we know that the actress. didn't gain, let's just say, 30 pounds overnight. Yeah. So, you know, it's fake and it's just so unnecessary to show. Like if someone's in a weight loss journey, they're not going to go from like that to like what, you know, there's a transition. We could just show her being herself and just.

[00:36:32] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah, that would have been fine. No one's gonna question it. I do like Hannah. Love her.

[00:36:36] SETH VARGAS: Oh, she's my favorite. I know earlier I said I only like Spencer, but I do, I do really like Hannah. I just feel like I don't like Hannah's storylines. Okay. But like, Hannah herself, she's like the, sometimes the only funny one.

[00:36:48] SETH VARGAS: She

[00:36:48] ILISSA DALEY: is. She's very funny. Yeah. Yeah, she's like some, most of the time, the comedic relief of the show. Yeah. And it still kind of was like that, at least in this episode. The dynamic is still the same. [00:37:00] She doesn't speak up as much as she does now. She's definitely, when Ally's, when Ally's in her presence, she, uh, she bows down.

[00:37:08] ILISSA DALEY: They all do. Yeah. So. Like we were talking, you know, while we were watching Michelle's like, what is it about her? And we're like it must just they just fear her that the people in the town just fear her How'd

[00:37:20] SETH VARGAS: you get that? My wife said the same thing. She was like, why are they? What is her because she's like she's not particularly funny.

[00:37:26] SETH VARGAS: She's not particularly smart. I was like, it's just power

[00:37:28] ILISSA DALEY: power She's a beautiful power powerful person Yeah, yeah, so Ashley ends up drinking a lot of martinis at the grill because she's very upset and so Darren Wilden who we know as detective is a cop in 2008. So how did he get his detective job? Maybe we will find out and he clearly has a crush On Ashley.

[00:37:55] ILISSA DALEY: And he drives her home because she's too drunk to drive, which is good for her. She doesn't drink and [00:38:00] drive. And then the next day he comes and he checks on her again. And Ashley's like, I think he got the wrong impression about this. And he just like has a really cryptic message like, just be careful out there.

[00:38:10] ILISSA DALEY: People are people on the road are crazy. She's like, what are you implying? And we know obviously their history what happens after that So Allison and Hannah are hanging out as Hannah babysits and Allison is telling this story as we said in the top of the show where she's scaring this little boy But he wants to hear it about the twins and they fight over their doll and then the one twin stabs the other Kills them and the tip the stab Stabber goes to an asylum and then gets released and wants to kill these trick or treaters So after we hear that story the girls pass by this abandoned house who's House it is we don't know because we never reference it again I was trying to figure out if it's someone's house.

[00:38:58] ILISSA DALEY: That's of importance. [00:39:00] Do you remember

[00:39:00] SETH VARGAS: right? Well, so they say the only thing the only thing is it's the house that they go to at the end That's the

[00:39:06] ILISSA DALEY: only reference that we

[00:39:07] SETH VARGAS: have and they say it's on Mockingbird Lane, which is the house from the

[00:39:11] ILISSA DALEY: monsters. Yes Yeah, yes, yes, that's it. So it's not anyone No, but I love the reference right like we love to hear the Halloween references However in the story of pretty little liars this house really doesn't mean anything and I wish it kind of was someone's house That we figure out later on like I don't know I just wish we would have done something like

[00:39:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: halfway through I was like Do I know this house and I'm like should I store it and she's like no and I'm like

[00:39:41] ILISSA DALEY: got it It would be just it would have been fun to tie it into another one should live there move into

[00:39:46] SETH VARGAS: there, right?

[00:39:47] SETH VARGAS: Yeah, Maya moves in right? Oh, well Maya moves into

[00:39:49] ILISSA DALEY: the de Laurentiis, right? But it would have been fun if Maya did let's just say yeah down the line move into that house It's like oh, isn't it

[00:39:56] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: that house with the twin stabbing

[00:39:57] ILISSA DALEY: this

[00:39:57] SETH VARGAS: episode is such an odd combination [00:40:00] of like 75 percent You can never watch this episode or just throw it all away and then 25% you need it deep.

[00:40:09] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. Seated stuff. Exactly that. When. In several seasons, you'll be like,

[00:40:15] ILISSA DALEY: Oh, right. Yeah. Yes. It's a good. It's a 75 25. You're right. It's a good, a good amount of throwing away and keeping. Didn't we see a van though that said

[00:40:26] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: like asylum and then we saw movement. We saw a van. Okay.

[00:40:32] ILISSA DALEY: Okay. Of Radley sanitarium, which isn't that funny that we see this truck.

[00:40:37] ILISSA DALEY: It's,

[00:40:38] SETH VARGAS: it's so

[00:40:40] ILISSA DALEY: dumb. Kiss. Kiss. Kiss. Oh, come on. It's. It's. It's. It's.

[00:40:43] SETH VARGAS: It's. No, yeah, it is. And so dumb, like I'm.

[00:40:47] ILISSA DALEY: Well, Michelle, Radley Sanitarium, we will see in the future. It is in the silo. You will see it again. I figured. I figured. Okay. Put a pin in that one. But it's just a nice, that was an Easter egg for people [00:41:00] who know that it was there.

[00:41:02] ILISSA DALEY: So it could make it seem like the story that Allison was telling could be true. Yes. But when we saw movement, I

[00:41:11] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: thought that person got out and was now living in that house.

[00:41:16] SETH VARGAS: Well, I, the, the, like the through line spook thing, right, is the baby mask person. Yes. And so I think they're just kind of like keep that like thin line of scary tension going.

[00:41:30] SETH VARGAS: And so I think you're supposed to couple that with that, but there's not enough there to make that. Right. If you saw a baby face. In the window, you know, like that would help clear up what's, but you don't, and we are ramping up the doll stuff in this episode. It's like, it's insane. And we just had the doll stuff with the buried lady and everyone gets their own

[00:41:59] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: [00:42:00] doll.

[00:42:00] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah, I was squealing, squealing during that.

[00:42:03] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. The GPS doll.

[00:42:05] ILISSA DALEY: I'll tell you where to go. That was a great, great representation of the doll. Um, so after you hear that story, you see the house. Kate had asked Michelle, what do you make of this story? Do you think it's anything related to the, to the show? Or it's just this kind of one off special that.

[00:42:26] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. They're just making it. Yeah. More interesting. Yeah.

[00:42:31] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I think that like we just talked about. Like it's just, the house means nothing, clearly, because you guys just told me that. And we do go back to that, uh,

[00:42:40] ILISSA DALEY: place. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Alright, so we see Allie basically in her most true form, I feel. We've seen her pretty bad in flashbacks, but like Seth said, we get her for the entire episode.

[00:42:55] ILISSA DALEY: So every time she is mean, she is so damn mean. [00:43:00] And we see her many times blow off Mona, who is just trying to Talk to her bless her heart and then wait for me guys. She is so like the Lucas scene was so hard for me to watch. I almost wanted to turn the television off. Like I just it's so uncomfortable and unnecessary and she just keeps digging and digging and poking at the bear until he runs away.

[00:43:25] ILISSA DALEY: Like it's just so it's very frustrating to you. Watch that

[00:43:33] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I got kind of got my wheels turning

[00:43:34] ILISSA DALEY: though. Mm hmm Well, then Lucas looks at Mona and kind of says to her like she's gonna get what's coming to her He says that to her. He says that to Mona and Mona doesn't say anything, but you can she registers it Yeah, you know

[00:43:48] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: light predict kind of makes me think She's been teasing him and it's been fake this whole time and the two of them are working together as an a team

[00:43:56] ILISSA DALEY: Oh, you mean in 2011?

[00:43:58] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah Love [00:44:00] it. Love it. Got it. Yeah. I see, I could see why you would say that. Because even me watching it, I'm like, yeah, she's so mean to him in, in present day.

[00:44:09] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: And she calls him the same term

[00:44:13] ILISSA DALEY: that Allie used. Putting the pieces together, like if what you're saying is true, she's friends with Hannah, but Lucas is friends with Hannah.

[00:44:23] ILISSA DALEY: You don't think that Mona would. Also want to be like no

[00:44:26] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: because Mona in my world right now Mona and Lucas Set up this weird Like you make fun of me. This is how we're gonna work this. We're actually frenemies We worked together to get back at Allie on Halloween and we're dressing as the with the masks Okay, and there's a bunch of us who Allie has tortured

[00:44:49] ILISSA DALEY: Yes,

[00:44:50] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: there and it's not just one a at in this into that we're in 2008.

[00:44:55] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's not just one a it's a bunch of them And then the new a [00:45:00] maybe it's different. I don't know.

[00:45:01] ILISSA DALEY: Um, well like a lot of people want to know that Yeah, you feel like this a Ali's a is our a or like you said there's an 18. Yeah, it's just an 18. So is the 18 the same team?

[00:45:17] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Because I also think Jenna's on an A team.

[00:45:19] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Mm hmm. She's on the future A team. Along with

[00:45:22] ILISSA DALEY: Garrett, who wasn't here. Right, because Jenna just rolled into town. Right. Right. So she's not on the A team yet.

[00:45:26] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: That's what I'm saying. She's on the present A team. And Garrett was not seen. Garrett was not seen in this. He was

[00:45:31] ILISSA DALEY: not in this episode. The only one we were really missing to bring it full circle.

[00:45:37] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah.

[00:45:38] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. I mean, I didn't miss him. No, for sure. God,

[00:45:40] ILISSA DALEY: turd. No, we didn't miss him at all. We hate Garrett. Right.

[00:45:44] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Right. But Yeah,

[00:45:47] ILISSA DALEY: okay. That's what I think. So our girls, as we said, get invited to Noel Kahn's Halloween party. It's the party of the century. Because him and, I guess, his college age brother are throwing it.

[00:45:59] ILISSA DALEY: I guess the parents [00:46:00] are not around. Eric, I think they said his brother's name was. And we have these great costumes. Except for like, the cultural appropriation of Emily's costume. Sure. You know, definitely we not, we would not do that now. We would not do that now. Right. We would not do the fat suit now. We would not do this.

[00:46:21] ILISSA DALEY: I mean, there's a lot of things that we would not do now. And it's actually pretty surprising to me that a woman directed and a woman wrote this episode. It hurts me, actually, in my soul to hear that. Anyway, it's very problematic, but I digress. So, Allie goes to the costume shop because she needs to find her perfect costume, which I feel like is so out of character for her.

[00:46:42] ILISSA DALEY: Why would she go to Spirit? I agree. To get a costume. I agree. You and I have been making costumes for years. Yeah. Because we wanted to be special and something meaningful. Yeah. Like you think Queen Bee. That's right. Would want to be something. Like make your own Lady Gaga. Yeah. You know?

[00:46:56] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. Yep. And a few days before.

[00:46:59] SETH VARGAS: She's not [00:47:00] ready for this? Yeah. She's not

[00:47:00] ILISSA DALEY: ready. And like the chances of there being costumes left are really slim. Well I mean that's

[00:47:05] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: logistics we can get into. Of course.

[00:47:07] ILISSA DALEY: You know. That's just. Yeah. But then she buys her Lady G costume at. Let's just call it spirit, right? Because that's really what it is.

[00:47:16] ILISSA DALEY: And then we see Jenna for the first time pre glasses or pre blindness and she comes in there and Allison's clearly right off the bat threatened, like, you're buying Lady Gaga. I'm Lady Gaga. We're going to the same party. I better not see you in it. And Jenna's like, oh yeah, I know who you are. Like, I've kept my eye out.

[00:47:38] ILISSA DALEY: I know who you are. My eye. My eye. Which is, how? How? I guess because, if this is October, so school has been in session for a month. But her snow

[00:47:49] SETH VARGAS: globe was just on the truck. No, you're so right. Like, she just came in.

[00:47:54] ILISSA DALEY: She

[00:47:55] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: just, she didn't even move in yet. Toby wasn't at

[00:47:56] SETH VARGAS: that party. This is that day. This is snow globe truck [00:48:00] day.

[00:48:01] SETH VARGAS: The first thing she does is go get a costume.

[00:48:04] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah, I know. And Toby wasn't at that party, right? No, but Toby wouldn't be invited. That's fine, but wouldn't Well, was Toby at that party? Or was Toby? Oh, was

[00:48:12] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Toby. Okay, okay, okay. Whatever. We've got

[00:48:15] ILISSA DALEY: a lot of baby masks.

[00:48:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Wouldn't it Wouldn't that be the line, though?

[00:48:18] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Of like, she heard about the party through Toby?

[00:48:20] ILISSA DALEY: No, she got invited from Noel. How did she Well Because he saw a hot girl walking on the street and said Right. Yeah. Hello. Small town.

[00:48:28] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Small town.

[00:48:29] ILISSA DALEY: You're new. Everything's small. Well,

[00:48:31] SETH VARGAS: he's cruising with his boys. They're driving around with a top down. Yelling at

[00:48:35] ILISSA DALEY: anybody.

[00:48:36] ILISSA DALEY: Didn't you think it was funny? So much testosterone and no sheep in sight.

[00:48:40] SETH VARGAS: Bro, get out. Horrible. Bad

[00:48:44] ILISSA DALEY: writing. I was looking at blogs and people were like, so he's a sheep fucker? Like, I don't understand what this reference was. It's on a movie reference, is it? I clearly missed it. I clearly missed it. No, [00:49:00] no.

[00:49:00] ILISSA DALEY: You know, you know. No, no.

[00:49:02] SETH VARGAS: As far as I can tell. It's just another really edgy thing for Allison to say. Right? But it's like, God, you can come up with

[00:49:11] ILISSA DALEY: anything else. Nothing else. I mean,

[00:49:13] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: she could deliver anything and it would sound

[00:49:16] ILISSA DALEY: Snarky. Yeah. And what I didn't like was his response says, watch out who you say that to because another guy might not be so nice.

[00:49:24] ILISSA DALEY: I'm sorry,

[00:49:24] SETH VARGAS: Mr. Gynecologist. But everyone's a suspect in this episode. Yes, you're right. You're right. Because of what we're learning, you know, uh, I think it's the last, the previous episode. When the cop is like, what are you doing here? Right. And then we get the whole interaction with him and Jenna. And it's like, Hey, we did all this stuff.

[00:49:43] SETH VARGAS: Right. And so then they re up mixing everything up in your mind of like, well, wait now maybe I'm. Suspecting all these other people as well, like him or like Jason when he's like, if I told you I'd have to

[00:49:58] ILISSA DALEY: kill you. [00:50:00] Why would you say that? He talks like this. Makes him so corny. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, we're still at the Halloween shop.

[00:50:08] ILISSA DALEY: Jenna leaves. Noel scares Allison. And she gets pissed and then she turns around and this baby burlap scares her. So I'm just going to call it baby burlap. Because I don't know what else to call it. It's baby burlap. That's my nickname for the costume. Yeah. Scares her and she yells freak. So, all right. So later on the scene was we were just mentioning Jason comes into her room to give Alison a package.

[00:50:34] ILISSA DALEY: She's writing in her notebook, slams it shut. She doesn't want him to see like he's gonna like peer over. Their relationship is very odd. He asks a 14 year old for beer money. You're 21. You can't buy yourself beer. Maybe he's not 21. He doesn't have cash? Something like that, right? He doesn't have

[00:50:50] SETH VARGAS: cash. Well, he might just be collecting.

[00:50:51] SETH VARGAS: This I, I can relate to. Okay. Collecting money for the, for the party. Sometimes, you know, you,

[00:50:58] ILISSA DALEY: you gotta find enough. Plus, like, [00:51:00] maybe a younger sister would be more Responsible with like maybe Allison seems more responsible to keep her cash or like always is keeping cash just in case kind of thing So yeah, she would have some yeah, but she won't she pulled out that wallet.

[00:51:14] ILISSA DALEY: I just had like these flashbacks I was like Michelle. Do you remember these wallets like they were everything? Mungus you just needed a big bag a big bag or you would like walk around with it. Yeah Like with yeah, that was your pocketbook that's so dangerous. First of all, that's your wall. It's like a clutch.

[00:51:30] ILISSA DALEY: It was a clutch. It was huge. And you can even I think put like a strap on it. Anyway, so Ali gives him the money. He says, Oh, we're making a film. But if I told you what it was about, I'd have to kill you.

[00:51:41] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Is that what he said? I missed that because I was

[00:51:43] ILISSA DALEY: too distracted. Yeah. She says, what are you and your stoner buddy stoner buddies doing?

[00:51:47] ILISSA DALEY: And he says, we're making a movie. But if I tell you what it's about, I'd have to kill you. Literally quote. No, I heard that. I didn't hear he was making a movie. Making a movie. Yeah. Okay. What movie that [00:52:00] may that be? Don't know. Um, many movies. Seems. Anyway, okay, so she opens the package and inside is a burlap voodoo doll and tagged to it is a note that says, it's my turn to torture you, which I might add was typed out, was not written, was that on purpose?

[00:52:23] ILISSA DALEY: Probably. Right? Probably so if you

[00:52:25] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: can't understand handwriting. Right. Like,

[00:52:28] ILISSA DALEY: would we pick up if it was a handwriting we've seen before? Right. Or is it our A's handwriting? Is it the note's handwriting? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think they want you to know anything. Yeah. It's very, very, very cryptic.

[00:52:42] ILISSA DALEY: So she takes the note, I don't know what she does with the voodoo doll. Did you know what she did with the voodoo doll? It was like, no, who knows?

[00:52:50] SETH VARGAS: You would think that would be the part she would

[00:52:51] ILISSA DALEY: hide. Thank you. She hides, however, the note part in the doll's head. She takes out a necklace. [00:53:00] It looks like a locket, perhaps.

[00:53:03] ILISSA DALEY: And shoves the note into the doll's head, puts it back into the box that we have now seen Aria have in her possession. Yeah. In present day. It's a good box. And she puts it back into the air duct where the radiator is.

[00:53:19] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Wait, do we ever see this voodoo doll again? Maybe.

[00:53:22] ILISSA DALEY: What? I gotta keep something. Maybe. I know we go.

[00:53:26] ILISSA DALEY: I don't know.

[00:53:26] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Do we go back to this note? Is Aria going to be like, Oh, what's in the doll's head? Let me, like, turn it.

[00:53:31] ILISSA DALEY: Yes. Ew, it's so creepy. It is very creepy. I don't remember the voodoo doll, but I know for sure they go through the stuff in the box. Yeah, well. In the future. Yeah, okay, okay. Right. Okay, so the girls are getting ready for the party.

[00:53:42] ILISSA DALEY: This is when Aria comes in, says she's not really about the party because obviously Allie knows that she had just caught her dad cheating on her mom and then Spencer sees burlap baby outside. And gets scared because she's like, what the hell is that? And then Allie realizes like, that's the same thing [00:54:00] that scared me in the Halloween shop.

[00:54:04] ILISSA DALEY: She also has text, uh, called Hannah, like you said before, asking if Hannah was at the Halloween shop, did Hannah text her? Because she got a cryptic message about someone that was. Watching. Yeah. Okay. So we're at the party. As I said, Noel's dressed up as a gynecologist. We have Melissa and Ian there, Bonnie and Clyde, which I thought their costumes were pretty great, to be honest.

[00:54:27] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. Melissa, they rocked it. Looks so good.

[00:54:30] SETH VARGAS: Yes. Very, very close to

[00:54:32] ILISSA DALEY: the actual movie. Very. It's, they looked, she looked really great. And then we see Officer Wilden, who's not a cop. Just a cop hanging out with fourteen year olds. Like with Jenna. Drinking with Jenna. Not shutting down the party. High school kids drinking.

[00:54:51] ILISSA DALEY: You're there. You're definitely way older. Yep. Alright, so then we see another Lady Gaga [00:55:00] and Allison knows it's Jenna because nobody knows her yet. Allison knows who it is because she has met her before. She goes up to her and she says, Huh, interesting. You didn't change your costume. And Jenna's like, No, I really, I wanted to go with this.

[00:55:14] ILISSA DALEY: I thought it was going to be, um, you know, original and You can see everyone's kind of like looking at her and admiring her as she's slow dancing to Gaga in the light. Her

[00:55:25] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: dancing is like a cat with a

[00:55:27] ILISSA DALEY: laser pointer. I loved it. It was just like It was so fitting of her. Don't you think that was so fitting?

[00:55:31] ILISSA DALEY: She was like feeling it.

[00:55:32] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I mean, I was

[00:55:33] ILISSA DALEY: into it. I was into it. I was there. I would definitely be staring at her. And then we see Emily, who is like googly. She's like slow dancing with Ben, who's clearly not bad by the way. And she's googly eyes at Jenna and Jenna like looks back and they smile at each other and Allie catches it.

[00:55:49] ILISSA DALEY: And she's like, not my girl. I don't want you. Staring at each other and so then she realizes oh Emily must be a lesbian because she's staring at Jenna She's telling everyone [00:56:00] that she slept with Ben when it's clearly not true So she's putting all the pieces together and she's like, I know I know your secret, but I won't tell anyone.

[00:56:07] ILISSA DALEY: I won't tell anyone.

[00:56:08] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. You're, you're staring at the same person everyone's staring at,

[00:56:11] ILISSA DALEY: but. You're a lesbian, but you're a lesbian. Yeah. I know your secret. Um, and then Allie does go up to Jenna. And approaches her, like I said about the costume, but she does also invite her to be in their clique. So Regina George, like, it was like written Mean Girls, exactly the same scene of we could be your friends, we would really enjoy you if you keep, if you hang out with me, you'll be in like the coolest circle basically.

[00:56:39] ILISSA DALEY: And Jenna's like, no, I'd like to pick my own friends. And I was like, Queen, thank you for saying something and sticking up to Allison because nobody does. And we see Jenna is the first one to do so. We also see Jenna then go over to a woman in the Catwoman suit and they introduce each other and we find out [00:57:00] that it's Mona, even though you can tell it's Mona, but Allison doesn't recognize her.

[00:57:04] ILISSA DALEY: No. Which is weird. You think so? Yeah, I

[00:57:07] SETH VARGAS: think I thought that was weird. They're playing Mona down as like, frumpy in the flashback stuff, cause it's like, oh, Mona, not cool. And then here, she's like, Halle Berry cool.

[00:57:18] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. Yeah. I guess, yeah, I guess Allison wouldn't recognize her then. Yeah. Yeah. Cause she's got more confidence, and she's got the mask, and her makeup, and she's just feeling herself, and that she feels herself so much that she goes and she introduces herself to Jenna.

[00:57:32] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. And It makes it seem like, now, where we are, like, Oh, these two have a relationship, or had a relationship, at least. Photonically.

[00:57:42] SETH VARGAS: Potentially. Again, the most important date in PLL history, apparently.

[00:57:49] ILISSA DALEY: So true. The day Jenna and Mona met. The day that we found Ian with the tapes. It's just, so much has happened.

[00:57:57] ILISSA DALEY: Allie gives Spencer the two ballots that she [00:58:00] had taken out and they have to light it on fire at the party. Why didn't she back? She wanted, again, it's the control thing, right? Like, I'm dangling it over your head in case anyone were to find out that I did this. But

[00:58:11] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: at the party for a good amount of time and she's like, wait, let me whip this out of my jacket.

[00:58:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Like, you got ready with them. Right?

[00:58:17] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. And the ballots just, like, don't they say, like,

[00:58:21] ILISSA DALEY: ballot or something? They're big and blue and say

[00:58:23] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: ballot.

[00:58:25] SETH VARGAS: Like, when I vote in my local elections and presidential elections, they don't look this official.

[00:58:32] ILISSA DALEY: No. Right? Rosewood High having these Wouldn't it be like

[00:58:37] SETH VARGAS: an index card or

[00:58:38] ILISSA DALEY: something?

[00:58:39] ILISSA DALEY: Exactly. A little piece of paper. A little post it. Yeah. She tells Spencer very cryptically as well. Basically watch your back, like you don't know who your friends are and like basically saying like, you know, I, you can trust me. I'm the person you can trust, but maybe not everyone else. Mm-Hmm. . So they kind of all separate and Allie text all the girls individually and I said, this [00:59:00] is pre group text.

[00:59:01] ILISSA DALEY: Like she couldn't text them all in one group that she was in trouble. Hmm. And also I was thinking. It's, she texted all of them to see who would tell someone, like, would they, one of them say like, oh, Allie is in trouble, I'm gonna go by myself, or am I gonna tell someone else about it? So I think she did that all specifically, did them, text them all individually, she didn't just like text Spencer, I'm in trouble, get everyone and come help.

[00:59:26] ILISSA DALEY: You know what though,

[00:59:27] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: you can't, the fact that they got the message all at the same time, but she had to send them separately, they all got a ding. But it wasn't a

[00:59:35] ILISSA DALEY: group. Do you know what I'm

[00:59:36] SETH VARGAS: saying? It'd be like Maybe they all walked out of service range and they all came back into service range at the

[00:59:42] ILISSA DALEY: same time.

[00:59:42] ILISSA DALEY: It's the only way it would have happened. The only way it would have happened. Yeah. Yeah. So they follow the address and of course it's at the abandoned house that we see in the beginning of the episode and in their Excuse me, is Baby Burlap following them? And so the girls finally see Allie and she's frantic [01:00:00] saying that he's trying to hurt her.

[01:00:01] ILISSA DALEY: He's got a knife and he's chasing her all the way down to this house. And so she says, you guys stay in here though. And I'm gonna go outside and fight Baby Burlap myself. Like nobody else can come. I have cell

[01:00:13] SETH VARGAS: reception in the hallway. Lock the door. And

[01:00:16] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I'm gonna go by myself. I'm being chased, but I'm gonna go by myself.

[01:00:20] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Why don't we

[01:00:20] ILISSA DALEY: all go into the hallway? Great, that's all. But of course, we needed to have this entire setup of her and the baby, they're fighting, and Emily's peeking through the little, little tiny keyhole, and she's watching the whole thing happen, and they're freaking out because now the door is barricaded with something so they can't push out.

[01:00:39] ILISSA DALEY: And finally, they push out the window, they get downstairs, and Allie is just laughing and clapping, saying, Ah ha ha, I got you guys, you were so easy to fool, you were so scared. Now I know that I can trust you. Like they didn't know that they signed up for this game of who's going to be, you know, the best friend here.

[01:00:57] ILISSA DALEY: Who's who's going to be worthy [01:01:00] of Allison. And so they're pissed. Like what? I would be so infuriated, so infuriated. I don't think I would ever talk to her again.

[01:01:08] SETH VARGAS: Yeah, it's, it's messed up. They're potentially going to get hurt climbing down and Someone could have

[01:01:15] ILISSA DALEY: actually really gotten hurt. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:17] ILISSA DALEY: Especially since we then find out that This person who she thought was Noel Kahn is not Noel Kahn. So she's like, me and Noel, we set this whole thing up. They go back to the party and he's like, don't be mad. I couldn't leave. My brother took the car, which I'm like, it's a tiny town. You didn't could have walked there.

[01:01:35] ILISSA DALEY: Right? Like the girls walked there. So, I don't know. Anyway, Allie's freaked out because now we know it wasn't Noelle that actually was fighting her and was potentially really trying to hurt her and or kill her. So, the fact that she made it out alive is pretty Good for her at this point and so she gets shoved by a baby burlap and [01:02:00] they yell bitch to her.

[01:02:01] ILISSA DALEY: They're like, bitch. Yeah. And she's like, who is that? And Noel even is like, who is that? Because everyone's in the same costume. We pan out and we see all these baby burlaps. You're like, wait, who the hell is what? And one of them takes their mask off and it's revealed to be Lucas. Isn't it the one who shoved her and said bitch was Lucas?

[01:02:19] ILISSA DALEY: Well, yes. That, yes, yes.

[01:02:21] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Okay, so that one definitely we

[01:02:23] ILISSA DALEY: can confirm. So that one we can definitely, the one who said bitch is definitely Lucas. We don't know for sure who the one that was fighting Allie, the one that was in the Halloween shop. We don't know exactly, but we know for sure that Lucas is at the party and he was in that costume.

[01:02:36] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Right. And then Allie gets attacked steeding, dying to know who I am, you'll find out. A, which that was the first time that we've seen an A, the other ones were not signed A. This tax is now signed by A. Arya says, who is that? And Alya says, it's a secret. It's a secret. So dumb, it's so dumb. So, [01:03:00] and there we go, the first secret, right?

[01:03:02] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Even though it's probably her millionth secret at this point. Right, right, right, right. Yeah, goodness gracious.

[01:03:11] SETH VARGAS: And we don't even know. That it's not Noel, because we don't know who, what, who it was. And so he could be lying. Oh, I wasn't

[01:03:21] ILISSA DALEY: there. He could have been lying. Cause he was also in the costume.

[01:03:23] ILISSA DALEY: There's

[01:03:23] SETH VARGAS: like seven people wearing the same costume. And so like Michelle was saying, okay, let's say there's, you know, like a team of A's and who could possibly be in, then you have all these people at the party in an orchestrated, extremely specific costume. One of whom. Attacked her. Yeah. What does that communicate to us?

[01:03:49] SETH VARGAS: It's so dumb. Because everyone, so everyone there wearing that costume has to be in on it.

[01:03:56] ILISSA DALEY: Question mark. Yes. Like, we assume, [01:04:00] clearly. The chances

[01:04:01] SETH VARGAS: of that, like. And then if it wasn't, no, how did they know to go there in the same costume that Allie would have expected him to be in? And if Allie was almost murdered in front of their eyes, why have they never referenced this night when talking for two years about the events of Allie's disappearance, not once?

[01:04:25] SETH VARGAS: Anybody was like, Hey, remember Halloween when someone almost stabbed

[01:04:28] ILISSA DALEY: her to death? And we found out it wasn't Noel. Like we thought it, she thought it was Noel. Wait, that's so weird. It wasn't Noel.

[01:04:36] SETH VARGAS: Someone did try and kill her. There's steam coming

[01:04:40] ILISSA DALEY: out of my ears right now. Oh, I know. You want to add fuel to the fire?

[01:04:44] ILISSA DALEY: Mike wants to know what is more unappealing? The creepy baby mask or a human form of Shrek? I'm

[01:04:55] SETH VARGAS: [01:05:00] a fan of the doll stuff, you know, it's, it's like tapping into this thing that is. It's like in our society and culture, like inherently, uh, feminine, youthful and creepy. What do you call those dolls? Porcelain doll?

[01:05:18] SETH VARGAS: Like a porcelain doll is such a good, uh, like icon for this show and like what it's doing. So I'm a big fan of it, but baby burlap, it never comes. We don't see that again. Right? Refresh my memory. I

[01:05:34] ILISSA DALEY: think we might see it one time. Or maybe I'm

[01:05:38] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: confusing it. Hmm? Now they should use it, right?

[01:05:42] ILISSA DALEY: They

[01:05:43] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: should use it,

[01:05:44] ILISSA DALEY: right?

[01:05:44] ILISSA DALEY: That should be like the ace team logo. Well, not even that, but like

[01:05:49] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: now that we wrote this, because we didn't know about this in the beginning, like you said, Seth, we would have referenced this night about Allie being almost stabbed by NotNoelCon, [01:06:00] supposedly. So now are we going to reference this? Because now we have it, we've created it in our world.

[01:06:07] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Well, the girls come back to this night

[01:06:10] ILISSA DALEY: to be D. This is like, do you remember stuff cause I don't

[01:06:14] SETH VARGAS: remember. No, no, no. Like I said, it's such an odd mixture, this episode, man. When, what I would say, Michelle, is if you remember this in like three years, go back and watch this episode and so much more will make sense.

[01:06:30] SETH VARGAS: And then you'll also be like, oh, but. So much. So many

[01:06:33] ILISSA DALEY: questions. Does it make sense?

[01:06:36] SETH VARGAS: Because yeah, like why just don't have seven or eight burlap babies just don't have that,

[01:06:44] ILISSA DALEY: but what they can. So they did. Yeah, I know. It's almost makes me

[01:06:51] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: feel like it's going to be Riverdale. Like we're, we're going to put out a lot of things, but we can't really follow through.

[01:06:57] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Interesting.

[01:06:58] ILISSA DALEY: Probably just, I have compared [01:07:00] these shows a lot of times I feel like

[01:07:02] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Like, this is so good in theory, we got it, but then in a couple years, like, shit, how can we tie? Oh, we actually can't, this is a mess. I'm out. They

[01:07:10] ILISSA DALEY: ruined it. The showrunners ruined it. Yeah.

[01:07:13] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. Re watching the few episodes surrounding this one, just to, like, re gather my bearings, Jean Marie and I were like, oh, right, I forgot about this entire plot line.

[01:07:24] SETH VARGAS: Oh, I forgot about this betrayal, or this person, or, it's like, oh my god. But this episode, they want to remind you. It's like, um, when you defrag your computer, like every, like even Hannah's mom, she's like, Oh, I'm looking for a job. I can be this. I can be this. And then she's like. Interesting. And it's a

[01:07:45] ILISSA DALEY: bank manager.

[01:07:46] ILISSA DALEY: And we have to see her circle that specific thing.

[01:07:49] SETH VARGAS: And yeah, they're just like, remember that?

[01:07:52] ILISSA DALEY: We remember all of it. We just watched it. We don't need it. We don't. We just saw

[01:07:55] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: it. Right, right. It's only season two, guys.

[01:07:58] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Like episode 13. It wasn't like [01:08:00] ten seasons. We just watched it. Right. Right.

[01:08:02] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Right.

[01:08:03] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. The whole thing is a previously on Pretty Little Liars, but it lasts an hour and it throws a bunch of stuff that's like, you're like, Oh, that wasn't previously on Pretty Little Liars. You're making that up.

[01:08:15] ILISSA DALEY: Yes. And welcome Michelle to Pretty Little Liars because this is just a little taste of what the next seven seasons, six.

[01:08:24] ILISSA DALEY: Six seasons are going to be and for the fans and the people who have watched before, there is one specific time I felt like we got some answers and you guys might all know what I'm talking about, but that's about it. So just preparing Michelle for just a lot of frustration. To come cool.

[01:08:47] SETH VARGAS: Yep. Great. It's a great show that just goes crazy.

[01:08:52] ILISSA DALEY: Provides nothing. But it's still fun.

[01:08:54] SETH VARGAS: It's so fun. Like I said, this is the worst episode, but the worst episode of PLL is still [01:09:00] really funny and makes you feel a lot of things. And you're like slapping your head

[01:09:05] ILISSA DALEY: over and over. The worst episode we talked about so much already, you know, like, Oh yeah.

[01:09:11] ILISSA DALEY: There's so much content to talk about. Yeah. All right. Let's just cool off for a sec. We're going to take a short break. So that we can gather our bearings here. Movie Friends is a film

[01:09:26] SETH VARGAS: podcast for everyone, where two friends discuss some of the greatest films Yes, Michelle? Did you rehearse that? Well, I'm reading it off a script for the commercial.

[01:09:37] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's really not a commercial, it's a promo, but Oh. Did you really think a script could describe our show?

[01:09:43] SETH VARGAS: Words are generally what are used to describe things, so yes? No,

[01:09:47] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: no, no, no, no. Our show is fun! It's all about the dynamic between you and me, and how you're a movie guy, and how I'm definitely not a movie guy.

[01:09:54] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: But you are like a movie guy. No, and we talk about movies, and we talk about life, and [01:10:00] cats, and we're joking all the time. People listen for that stuff. Not the movie

[01:10:04] SETH VARGAS: stuff. Right, but the movie stuff is like, that's the stuff.

[01:10:08] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Wow, maybe you should have rehearsed this more.

[01:10:11] SETH VARGAS: Movie Friends, it's a podcast about film.

[01:10:13] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's a podcast about friends. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and follow on Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, and Patreon at Movie Friends Podcast. We want to be your movie friends!

[01:10:28] ILISSA DALEY: Before I read the ice cream, I think we have a review that Michelle would like to read. We did get

[01:10:33] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: a new review that I cannot wait to share with you guys. And I'm happy that Seth is here to discuss it with us. Okay. Oh, hooray! So, this review is from Love Eat First Glow. Three stars. Title is, Prospective. I love Ezra and Aria.

[01:10:52] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Oh, I love Ezra and Aria. I loved them when the show aired. Pennsylvania law 16 is legal as long as he's not her [01:11:00] teacher. I don't have a problem with them because I'm very good at separating fantasy from real life. My brother got his master's at 23 and immediately started teaching college when I was a freshman at the same college.

[01:11:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Thank you for sending this perspective and that you're a fan of Ezra and Aria and explaining your point. Also, thank you for the download.

[01:11:25] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. Thank you for listening. Yeah Uh, I

[01:11:29] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: know, like, okay, so Pennsylvania law 16 is legal as long as he's not her teacher, but he was her

[01:11:37] ILISSA DALEY: teacher. Also they haven't slept together.

[01:11:40] ILISSA DALEY: I just have to keep that. I mean, they haven't slept together yet. And while it may be legal, he still continued to be her teacher. Yeah, but she did try and drop out of his class. Yeah, it didn't get approved, however. So, [01:12:00] but he's still a, uh, an older figure. As you will. In power. At her school. A figure of power.

[01:12:07] ILISSA DALEY: He's in a position of power. Position of power. That's right. Exactly. That's right. At her school. So even if he wasn't her specific teacher, he's still other kids teachers.

[01:12:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Right. And it, it's just a line of being

[01:12:16] ILISSA DALEY: inappropriate. Right. And we know, again, it didn't happen while he was her teacher. They didn't know that they would fall for each other.

[01:12:24] ILISSA DALEY: Right. But they let it continue. But it did happen. Because it continued. Right.

[01:12:30] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. And we say it all the time, like, We wish, well, we are always like, we have to remind ourselves. We gotta be in the fantasy. We gotta be in the fantasy. We can't look at it from the realistic

[01:12:40] ILISSA DALEY: eye. But we're also reviewing this show.

[01:12:42] SETH VARGAS: Yeah. But, but to be in the fantasy is not to accept everything that's put forth. So true. Right. So true. Like you can, you can Believe that this is happening without approving of it happening.

[01:12:55] ILISSA DALEY: Right, like we're believing it is. And there's a big distinction there. Oh, I believe

[01:12:58] SETH VARGAS: it. We don't like that it is.

[01:12:59] SETH VARGAS: Okay, so if [01:13:00] Ezra is a 23 year old teacher who is making out with 10 different girls who are 16 and a half years old but they're not his students, it's okay? Right. No. Get out of here. No, that's not good.

[01:13:11] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: That's crazy talking. Yeah. I mean, I personally just never like, The teacher student trope, never no bad.

[01:13:18] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: And any of the shows we covered . I didn't even like it when one of our people from another show was in college and did it because it was like, yeah. Right of power. A person in power and taking advantage. Mm-Hmm. . I just, I don't like it. I don't like this

[01:13:33] SETH VARGAS: trope. Yeah. It's, it's inappropriate and they know it's inappropriate and it still can, like if Ezra and Aria, it was just the one-off thing, they realized that they were teacher and student.

[01:13:49] SETH VARGAS: And they cut it off, but he needed to be in her life for some other reason, right? That adds a dimension to their relationship that's like crazy, [01:14:00] but that's not the story. They continue, she goes to his apartment

[01:14:04] ILISSA DALEY: regularly. Yeah, and maybe

[01:14:06] SETH VARGAS: if Ezra Fitts belongs in jail.

[01:14:08] ILISSA DALEY: Wow. And that is my perspective. A lot of men on this show belong in jail.

[01:14:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. They all like the young girls.

[01:14:17] SETH VARGAS: Well, Rosewood belongs in jail,

[01:14:19] ILISSA DALEY: yeah. I don't, Sarah Shepard wrote the books, right? I don't blame her necessarily for, you know, having the content of these underage girls. Yeah. But, we didn't have to do every single underage girl get their perspective predator, like we didn't need to have every single person have someone who was, you know.

[01:14:42] ILISSA DALEY: Much older than them, be attracted to them. It's just

[01:14:44] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: like Hannah. Hannah's the only one, right? She's the only one. At this point, who's dating someone appropriate. I mean, I know Spencer and Toby, but I know Spencer and

[01:14:49] ILISSA DALEY: Wren. Right, like Alright, Spencer and Wren,

[01:14:52] SETH VARGAS: yeah. But, she can write whatever she wants. Like I said, we don't have to Right, absolutely.

[01:14:58] SETH VARGAS: Right,

[01:14:59] ILISSA DALEY: of [01:15:00] course. It's a story, it's a story. It's

[01:15:02] SETH VARGAS: a story, it's a story. And stories don't hurt people.

[01:15:05] ILISSA DALEY: Absolutely. Right, and Michelle and I, I feel like I'll speak for ourselves, we are the most, uh, realistic in terms of knowing when something is real and when something is fake. And we know what we're watching is fake.

[01:15:23] ILISSA DALEY: It's a television show. So we're only here to critique. The plot of what we're given and again, like Seth said we don't have to agree with it But we have to still talk about it and you know what happening. Maybe it's just like I just don't like Ezra So I also just don't like Ezra and like that's a that's a me problem.

[01:15:44] ILISSA DALEY: I'm not telling it's a me problem and you guys Feel however you feel about Ezra You know, back in the day, there were many, there's still people to this day that love Ezra and Arya. And like, good for you guys. I really, truly am happy that [01:16:00] you have a couple. They're just not my couple. And I just, there's nothing about it that's interesting to me.

[01:16:05] ILISSA DALEY: I wonder if they're endgame. I wonder. Well, you guys know. Well, what do you think? Like at this moment in time, do you think that they're endgame? No.

[01:16:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I think this show is going to get wacky and we're going to have like a time, time something's coming. We're having a time warp. I think something weird is coming and I think it's going to throw everything to the wind because the writers are going to be like, we don't know what to do anymore and we're starting over.

[01:16:28] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: And I think that's when you guys all lost your minds. I just remember there's a point in time where Lyss and Ingrid and your cousin, Brittany, like all flipped a table, so to speak. And I'm like, what could have caused that? I truly don't know what happens, but I think something wacky happens.

[01:16:45] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah,

[01:16:46] SETH VARGAS: I said last episode that I was on last year, I have not finished the series, but you know what happens.

[01:16:51] SETH VARGAS: I got pretty, I got pretty far into it and I read, I looked it up and I've looked it up several times and I looked it up [01:17:00] in preparation for this. And just to remind myself, and I'm like reading from my phone to Jean Marie, all of the different connections and this and that, and this person. And because we start to get into, Like generational stuff like We're expanding beyond the four girls and I literally read her something and I was like, okay, right So that's this person and then went to another character's page I was like wait everything that I just read you I told you the run like it's so hard to keep track Even if it's laid out before you That you just throw your

[01:17:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: hands up.

[01:17:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah, so that's what I think so. I don't think they're endgame Buckling. Yeah, buckle up buttercup. Mm hmm me. Yeah.

[01:17:43] ILISSA DALEY: Anyway, thank you for the review Yeah, we're taking the time to write this review for listening for downloading. We really really appreciate it I'm happy for you that you love Ezra and Aria keep doing that Yeah, thank you [01:18:00] All right, so it's time for a lucky Leon's Ladle, thank you Michael for sending over the ice cream that we're pairing with this week's episode It is Ben and Jerry's coffee ice cream with fudge covered toffee pieces like this is right out my alley.

[01:18:14] ILISSA DALEY: Oh, yum The coffee ice cream has, I think he just likes when I say coffee. Mike just likes to hear me say coffee. The coffee ice cream here represents the caffeine that runs through Spencer's veins. The fudge covered toffee pieces represent Allie. While toffee is sweet, especially covered in fudge. Fudge, the caramelizing of the sugar makes it a hard exterior just like Allie, especially in this episode.

[01:18:38] ILISSA DALEY: With it being a prequel, we see a lot of Allie and the type of person she is. At first, we see her being a real friend and sweet with the liars, helping Spencer win class president, offering to get Emily on the pill and then keeping the secret that her and Ben didn't actually have sex, and then being there for Aria after seeing her Seeing Baron and Meredith, but then we see her being an outright bitch [01:19:00] to them and using their secrets against them.

[01:19:01] ILISSA DALEY: Just like toffee. Ally is sweet, but if you're not careful, you can chip a tooth or I could stab you in the back. . Michael, I have to disagree. I don't think she was trying to be a good friend at all in this . I don't either. I think everything she did was for her own

[01:19:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: motive. She's manipulative. And she likes power.

[01:19:18] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I don't think I agree with you, Liz. Like, there's no goodness.

[01:19:23] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. She just took what she, what she got from that. Before we do MVP and Shadeus, I just want to shout out, we have a new pledge, Kerry. Yay, Kerry! Welcome! Welcome to the fam, Kerry. Let us know. What brought you here, what show you love, and we look forward to getting to know you.

[01:19:42] ILISSA DALEY: Alright, Seth, I'm going to put you on the spot first. Who was your MVP of the episode? I

[01:19:48] SETH VARGAS: think my MVP is Jenna. Even though I was forced to look at her without sunglasses for part of the episode.

[01:19:58] ILISSA DALEY: She looked amazing in those Lady [01:20:00] Gaga sunglasses. Gorgeous.

[01:20:01] SETH VARGAS: Her outfit is a hundred times better than Allison's outfit.

[01:20:08] SETH VARGAS: I thought she was doing like Jem in the holograms costume. I didn't even know she was Lady Gaga for a bit. It's bad. It's bad. It's a terrible wig. Um, I also, for a second I was like, is she doing inverted Elvira? Oh! Like, it looked like an Elvira wig. Um, but yeah. So, I think Jenna Um, she's not really heavily at play in this episode, but she gets a few jabs into Allie.

[01:20:41] ILISSA DALEY: I agree. I love that she didn't give in to Allie. She's like, I'm not a conformist, you're not gonna control me. I can think for myself and pick my own friends.

[01:20:51] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah, I mean, Jenna was my MVP as well, because I liked seeing this side of her. She wasn't mean. Or bitchy. No,

[01:20:58] ILISSA DALEY: she had to defend [01:21:00] herself.

[01:21:00] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Barely! She, I mean, she like No, oh no!

[01:21:03] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Like, such confidence. And so like, with like a positive line, I loved it. I was really excited to see

[01:21:10] ILISSA DALEY: Jenna in this way. Yes. Yeah. It almost makes you, makes you think like, did Allie make her rough? You know? Did it make her have a hard exterior like Allison has a hard exterior because The Jenna thing. The Jenna thing.

[01:21:25] ILISSA DALEY: And also, well, yes. And like, cause they had to be pinned, basically pinned against each other cause Allie doesn't like competition. Right. So Can I ask you a question? Please.

[01:21:36] SETH VARGAS: Wouldn't this episode have been better if we focused on Establishing Jenna versus Allison. Yes. And we just did more. Yeah. Jenna with Toby.

[01:21:48] SETH VARGAS: Like, just make it the

[01:21:50] ILISSA DALEY: Jenna thing. We should have just called it like the Jenna thing and done all the Halloween stuff, the Jenna, the first, the first Jenna thing and Jenna verse [01:22:00] Allie, the first issue being the Lady G costume. I would have called it

[01:22:04] SETH VARGAS: Jenna. Rations, and the A is capitalized.

[01:22:07] ILISSA DALEY: Oh, I love it!

[01:22:10] ILISSA DALEY: So good. It just seems like this

[01:22:12] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Jenna we met today is not the same Jenna. Right, well, lots of, lots have happened to her. Not evil, but has turned dark. She's turned dark and blind. I mean, she went blind, so. I'm assuming that would do

[01:22:26] ILISSA DALEY: something to a person that would do it. That would do it. That might have an effect.

[01:22:30] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah, it might have an effect. We do have to mention the the creepy stuff with Toby though. Yes. Like we still haven't forgotten that that's a thing for you People at home we know still. That's the thing.

[01:22:44] SETH VARGAS: Yep. And that's give, give me

[01:22:45] ILISSA DALEY: more of that. Give me her interacting. Yeah, same, like when did that start?

[01:22:48] ILISSA DALEY: When did that happen? Because, like I said, he's

[01:22:51] SETH VARGAS: like, she gets what she wants. Right. Why is he saying that?

[01:22:53] ILISSA DALEY: Did it

[01:22:54] SETH VARGAS: happen already? Has something already Right.

[01:22:56] ILISSA DALEY: Right.

[01:22:58] SETH VARGAS: When did that happen? Because I know that she's out shopping [01:23:00] for costumes while he's unloading her snow globes.

[01:23:02] ILISSA DALEY: Right. Yeah. She's his little, her little bitch.

[01:23:05] ILISSA DALEY: Mm hmm. Speaking of bitches, I'm just gonna throw it. My shittiest is ally. Yeah, me too. . I, I couldn't give it to anyone else. She's shittiest,

[01:23:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: but also MVP at the same time. Yeah. Mm-Hmm. . Because this episode really was about her. Mm-Hmm. . I mean, I know we got like stories of everybody else, but the most of her, but for sure she was my shittiest

[01:23:27] SETH VARGAS: Seth, I, who's the cop?

[01:23:32] SETH VARGAS: The cop Weldon. Darren Weldon. Okay. I have. I have like a twist, if I can do an ice cream twist, of Wilden and Noel. Okay. Like, I hate Noel throughout this entire episode. Every time he's on screen, I'm just like, dude, this guy, come on. And then yeah, Wilden sucks, man. Like you said, he's at a party. Drinking.

[01:23:57] SETH VARGAS: He's drinking. On the job. He's in [01:24:00] uniform.

[01:24:01] ILISSA DALEY: Yes. Yeah. People thought he was dressed up as that. That's actually his uniform.

[01:24:06] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I think we should have had Garrett in this episode drinking with Weldon. And I think that would have Since they both work on The

[01:24:15] ILISSA DALEY: Force together. Well, Garrett was not on The Force then.

[01:24:19] ILISSA DALEY: No, I know,

[01:24:20] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: but it would have been like a connection. We could have seen like a connection. They end up working together and it seems like

[01:24:26] SETH VARGAS: they're always could have taken one more connection, to be honest with you. And when all this stuff happens with Wilden and Hannah's mom later, at no point is Hannah like, Isn't that the cop that brought you home that one night when you were drunk and then showed up the next day?

[01:24:41] SETH VARGAS: It's all

[01:24:42] ILISSA DALEY: just

[01:24:42] SETH VARGAS: lost to time, lost to the ether anyway. So yeah, Noel, Noel is number one. And then Wilden mixed

[01:24:50] ILISSA DALEY: in there. So this is the time where we do a cringe meter. I don't even know exactly how to rate this episode. [01:25:00] Michelle, like a couple weeks back, I said, we usually do it off of like dialogue and how cringy the dialogue is.

[01:25:06] ILISSA DALEY: It definitely was high on the cringe scale there, but then like the, the acting and the over dramatics. We're definitely high there. So, I mean, what can we give it out of 10? I feel like it's pretty high.

[01:25:18] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah, I'm like leaning towards an 8. 8. I'm gonna say

[01:25:21] ILISSA DALEY: an 8. It's high. 8. 5. Yeah, it's high. It's high for me.

[01:25:27] ILISSA DALEY: What do you think, Seth? I'm giving this 10. Yeah. Whoa, okay. This, this is. We can't come back from

[01:25:32] SETH VARGAS: that. This is the worst episode. And when you guys, so, um, You guys asked a long time ago We set up to do an episode for season two, right? Doesn't it feel like it was like a year ago? It's

[01:25:45] ILISSA DALEY: so funny. It probably was, but I was like, Michelle, I don't know if Seth actually knew he picked this specific episode for this reason, or he just picked Oh, I knew.

[01:25:54] ILISSA DALEY: Oh,

[01:25:55] SETH VARGAS: okay. I knew. When I went through, because you guys were like, you guys, yeah, want to come on for season [01:26:00] two? And I was like, yeah, which episode? And you were like, please pick for

[01:26:03] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: us. Yeah, we were like, we don't care. Just pick one, Seth.

[01:26:07] SETH VARGAS: And so I was like, if I can pick anything, This is going to be

[01:26:11] ILISSA DALEY: the one.

[01:26:11] ILISSA DALEY: Thank you. Nice. I'm so happy to have you for this one. Nice.

[01:26:16] SETH VARGAS: I do like the show if you're listening and you haven't heard me talk about it before, I do, I do really like it. Yeah. And I even liked this episode. But this is the bottom 10, 10 cringe, horrible writing, horrible,

[01:26:32] ILISSA DALEY: everything. Yes. Horrible. All right.

[01:26:36] ILISSA DALEY: So I will give Michelle the title for next week's episode. Like I said, it is a bit of a break for them. So when we come back, things will be a little bit different. It will be episode 14 of season two. And the title is through many dangers, toils and snares. That was a terrible title.

[01:26:59] SETH VARGAS: [01:27:00] Uh, song lyrics from the song Amazing Grace.

[01:27:03] SETH VARGAS: Thank you.

[01:27:04] ILISSA DALEY: You're welcome. I wonder how that's going to tie in with the, like, Swig's plot. Um, and my secret, Michelle. I've got a secret. I've got a secret. I've got a secret. Is that Mike punches Ezra in the face. So awesome. I look forward to that. Why do you think he punches him in the face? Just curious.

[01:27:34] ILISSA DALEY: Probably catches

[01:27:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: him with aria and Flips out on him Obviously for catching him. So I look forward to a punch in the face, but i'm more Like kind of we're gonna go you you told me last week. It's

[01:27:52] ILISSA DALEY: a month Yeah, it will be a month since we've seen them before Blast. Okay, and

[01:27:57] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: last the girls were being questioned [01:28:00] and Hastings was like you need to get them a criminal attorney, right?

[01:28:04] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yes. Okay, so The girls will get representation. Obviously, this isn't going away. Darren is still here because he's like, Yes, I'm on the case. And Natasha and Boris, Uh, that's who I call. Garrett and Jenna. I just can't help it. I hope we get a little bit more of their scheme and when Garrett leaves the force.

[01:28:31] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Question for you. Does Garrett leave this season? Like, is he gonna be on the island after the season or you can't tell me that?

[01:28:37] SETH VARGAS: Wow, you ask real pointed questions. How am I

[01:28:41] ILISSA DALEY: supposed to figure this out? I will tell you that I No, I, this like, I do not know. I do not know if it's this season. I can't confirm nor deny because I don't want to give you misinformation.

[01:28:54] ILISSA DALEY: No, I, I respect that. So I plead the fifth. I know that we're going

[01:28:58] SETH VARGAS: super long but can I ask a quick [01:29:00] question?

[01:29:00] ILISSA DALEY: Seth, you can always ask a

[01:29:01] SETH VARGAS: question. Because I, I do listen to your show. Well, As you know, I've texted you randomly throughout the day as I'm listening. I did not catch up with, uh, last episode and you can cut all this, feel free.

[01:29:16] SETH VARGAS: I'm just super curious what you guys think is in the envelope that

[01:29:22] ILISSA DALEY: Dr. Sullivan's Dr. Sullivan was handed. Do you

[01:29:25] SETH VARGAS: remember? Cause no, I'm just asking what you guys think, or like, I guess primarily what Michelle thinks.

[01:29:31] ILISSA DALEY: What do you think is on the envelope? Photos do not bend. photos. Photos do not bend. What photo, of photos what?

[01:29:37] ILISSA DALEY: Is that what it says on the envelope? Yeah,

[01:29:39] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: that's what she said. That's what she lists like new. Okay, all right, all

[01:29:42] ILISSA DALEY: right, all right. Okay. Yeah. Well, it's hard to see, but that's what listeners had wrote in and that's what people on Reddit had said it said. Okay. Said it said. All right. I was

[01:29:50] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: actually hoping that Sullivan was on the island because I think this would have been a good send off for her and this would have like upped the story of like what happened to her and also like, [01:30:00] A used her for what they needed.

[01:30:04] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah,

[01:30:05] SETH VARGAS: so if it's photos, what do you think it is though?

[01:30:08] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I think it's blackmail photos. Of what? I don't know guys, but I just know that it's blackmail photos. Okay. They have something on her. Listen, not everybody is innocent, and so No,

[01:30:21] ILISSA DALEY: they are not. No one

[01:30:22] SETH VARGAS: is in Rosewood. Every rose has its thorn and every resident has its secret.

[01:30:28] ILISSA DALEY: Thank you. It's like Desperate Housewives.

[01:30:30] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's exactly like Desperate Housewives. Doesn't that sound like Seth is narrating Desperate Housewives? Yeah. Yeah, but I look forward to that punch in the

[01:30:36] ILISSA DALEY: face. Yeah. So, if Mike knows, does anyone else know? Well, I mean the girls know.

[01:30:44] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Okay. And Jackie knows.

[01:30:46] ILISSA DALEY: She does.

[01:30:48] ILISSA DALEY: She does. So,

[01:30:50] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: not yet. Because Ella still thinks Spencer is with Ezra. Lol.

[01:30:57] ILISSA DALEY: But maybe when we come back, Ezra has corrected her. [01:31:00]

[01:31:00] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Maybe this is like trying to feed me a lion's and I'm just like I'm not accepting it like Peter not tonight.

[01:31:06] ILISSA DALEY: That's night No, that's enough for tonight. Not tonight Well, that could be enough for tonight yeah, but we love Seth I truly am so happy that This was you on this episode.

[01:31:20] ILISSA DALEY: I'm happy that you picked it and then we got to talk about it because while Michelle and I think we would have discussed this, we would not have done it justice as, as so fast. So you wouldn't have screamed at the top. No, I, but seriously, Seth, you're the fact that. You have the movie background really helps because there was a lot of movie references in this episode that I don't think Michelle and I would have picked up on necessarily unless I did look it up.

[01:31:48] ILISSA DALEY: Um, so with that being said, that's not the only reason why we loved you to be here because your commentary is so great, but we truly respect and love your opinions and [01:32:00] the fans love you. So we're going to keep you back. That's okay with you. Oh, Keep you back, continue to have you back. Yeah. Absolutely. And, uh, you know, if you guys aren't fans, you should definitely listen to Movie Friends.

[01:32:11] ILISSA DALEY: Seth, plug away! What

[01:32:13] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: is Movie Friends? What should people, where should they find you? What should they listen to? What should they read by you?

[01:32:19] SETH VARGAS: Absolutely. Well If you like me, and you like Michelle, and occasionally, Liss!

[01:32:36] ILISSA DALEY: Occasionally!

[01:32:39] SETH VARGAS: You should check out a show called Movie Friends. It is a podcast. About movies and friends.

[01:32:48] SETH VARGAS: And we talk about some great movies. We talk about some bad movies, but it's all done in a spirit of love, understanding, education, and understanding people through the [01:33:00] things that they enjoy. So if you think, Oh, I don't really watch that many movies. I don't want to listen to a movie specific podcast.

[01:33:08] SETH VARGAS: Then this is the one for

[01:33:09] ILISSA DALEY: you. It's a, it's a cool place. No pressure, please.

[01:33:13] SETH VARGAS: It's fun. We just did house party from 1990. It was so great. Incredible. It was so much fun. So fun. Yeah. And we also did moonlight from 2016. We do it all. Michelle

[01:33:24] ILISSA DALEY: doesn't seem too thrilled with that one. I loved it. Oh, okay. I rated that.

[01:33:27] ILISSA DALEY: Her face.

[01:33:28] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Five stars. Spoiler. Spoiler alert. That was a five star film. Five stars, man. That was perfection. I was shocked. Wow. She rated it higher than I did. Yeah. Perfection.

[01:33:37] ILISSA DALEY: Well, go listen now. Mm hmm. The links will be, as always, in the description, the bio. If you watch on YouTube, it's there. If it's, uh, if you listen, it's there too.

[01:33:46] ILISSA DALEY: So go ahead, click away. We'll be back next week for episode 14. We're really making Some lead way with this show. Oh my goodness Next week is fun. So you won't want to miss it. I think [01:34:00] I think it's better It's different it's just different. I feel like we probably go back to what we yeah, we'll go back to back on track Yeah, okay.

[01:34:11] ILISSA DALEY: This was fun. Yeah,

[01:34:12] SETH VARGAS: and as always if you want to get back on track be sure to leave a A review so that the latest review is not

[01:34:22] ILISSA DALEY: perspective.

[01:34:24] SETH VARGAS: Or let's get these reviews

[01:34:26] ILISSA DALEY: back up. Or if you have a perspective to share, please share it in the reviews. Yeah. Rate us five

[01:34:33] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: stars. If you're enjoying all in good fun, all in good fun, leave your perspective, your

[01:34:37] ILISSA DALEY: prospective.

[01:34:38] ILISSA DALEY: Yeah. Either one, any kind of specter and the specs are good. We'll take

[01:34:41] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: it. Amateur. All of it. All of it. We will take it. Yeah.

[01:34:46] ILISSA DALEY: Spencer Spector. Love it. Be creative with it. Thank you. And thank

[01:34:49] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: you, Seth. Thanks, Seth.

[01:34:52] SETH VARGAS: Thank you guys. Thank you for having me. Thank you very

[01:34:54] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: much. And that's it. Thank you so much for listening to We Are Liars, a Pretty Little Liars podcast.[01:35:00]

[01:35:00] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: You can email us at weareliarspod at gmail. com.

[01:35:03] ILISSA DALEY: If you'd like to leave us a voice message or just say hi, we have a voicemail 631 600 3916. If you haven't already and you're loving the show, please consider giving us a rating and review.

[01:35:16] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: This has been a Total Betty Podcast. Produced and edited by Michelle Rubinstein and Ilissa Daley.

[01:35:21] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Music by Anthony Viccora.