We Are Liars - A Pretty Little Liars Podcast

WAL 2X9 "Picture This"

[00:00:00] ILISSA TENIO: Welcome back to a very special episode of We Are Liars podcast. I'm Liss. I'm Michelle. And tonight we are joined by Kirsten McInnes. She is a queen and personality of three podcasts. She has Hot Dummies on Islands, Mess Magnets, and KowskiCast. Kirsten, thank you so much for joining us on our PLL journey.

[00:00:46] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Thank you so much for having me. I needed an excuse to watch a little bit of Pretty Little Liars. So this is perfect.

[00:00:52] ILISSA TENIO: It's like everyone's guilty pleasure. Yeah,

[00:00:56] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I don't know if anyone feels good about liking it. [00:01:00]

[00:01:00] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. But here I am. That's the consensus. I feel like with people around our age, they're like, Ooh, I watch this show and, uh, I don't really know if I should be proud that I watch this show, but you still go back to it.

[00:01:13] ILISSA TENIO: And we've had, like, a lot of our listeners, like, this is their comfort show. They put it on the background, they're cooking, they're cleaning, whatever. And It's just like that good crap TV that you want to watch, which you know much, much of, being that you love reality TV. I

[00:01:29] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: watch garbage all the time. Like, Hot Dummies on Islands is the feat of like every show that someone with taste will run away from.

[00:01:37] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I'm like, no, Temptation Island, I've got it. Love Island. Love Island isn't like better than the other ones. And anything where they're just, like, being, like, too hot to handle. Has anyone else watched every single episode of Too Hot to Handle and podcasted about it? I don't think so. I don't think so. But that's me.

[00:01:53] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: That's who I am. I like garbage.

[00:01:55] ILISSA TENIO: And we love garbage. Yes, we do. So, you're in the right. place. I'd [00:02:00] love to just start with your journey of Pretty Little Liars. When was the first time you watched it? Did you watch it live? And I know you haven't finished the whole show, so what made you stop? I mean, I could guess, but I,

[00:02:13] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I, I can't say what made me stop because I think it would be a pretty big spoiler.

[00:02:18] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Um, but I started watching In the summer of, I think, 2012, I was working at a front desk of, like, when the dorms turn into hotel rooms, and my one co worker was obsessed with Pretty Little Liars, and she had just gotten into it, and I think the new season had just gotten added to Netflix, and so I don't know if that's the case.

[00:02:43] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Season, between season 2 and 3 or between seasons 3 and 4, I can't remember, but I binged it then and then started watching live from there and it would always be just a fun show to catch up with that co worker who became a really close friend until it, it, it wasn't fun anymore. And then [00:03:00] I stopped

[00:03:00] ILISSA TENIO: watching it.

[00:03:01] ILISSA TENIO: I could totally relate. So, like,

[00:03:03] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: is season 5 the season that's It stops being fun.

[00:03:07] ILISSA TENIO: I mean, I feel like it's, it comes before

[00:03:10] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: that. Let me mentally

[00:03:12] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: prepare.

[00:03:13] ILISSA TENIO: They blend, they all bleed together in my brain. So, I mean, where we're at right now is 2011, so probably around season three is when you started watching the show.

[00:03:24] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah, that sounds right. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's a doozy, Michelle. I

[00:03:29] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: mean, as I know, I mean, you've teased that, but can't

[00:03:33] ILISSA TENIO: wait to get there. It's a wild ride. It's a wild ride. Well, the episode we're discussing tonight is Season 2, Episode 9, titled Picture This Fitting. This one actually makes sense. Aired August 9th, 2011, written by Janelle Lennon and directed by Patrick Norris, one of our old friends.

[00:03:53] ILISSA TENIO: Patrick Norris does all the teen dramas. Okay. Spencer is determined to find out. What Jason's hiding at [00:04:00] his house. Aria can't seem to get Jason off her mind for a different reason. Hannah helps Caleb with a difficult decision about his family. Now I, uh, had so many eyeballs in the, in the group chat tonight.

[00:04:14] ILISSA TENIO: I know lots of eyeballs. I was like, I can't wait for

[00:04:17] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: everyone to see this. I was like a brief, I'm like watching it. And I'm just like, eyeball, eyeball, eyeball. I'm like, okay, what's coming Liz? Cause I was like.

[00:04:24] ILISSA TENIO: Like, literally, like, my eyeballs were popping out of my head. Oh my goodness. I, I, we just have to get it off the table.

[00:04:32] ILISSA TENIO: Aria, Ezra, Jason. Like, for some reason, I'm actually not triggered by this. And we had this in the discussion. Michelle said, what did you say, Michelle? No,

[00:04:45] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: okay, so, Kirsten, a little, little backstory. List and I are not the biggest fans of As Aria, Ezra, and Aria being together,

[00:04:54] ILISSA TENIO: however, probably the least fan of the entire plot of the

[00:04:59] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: episode.

[00:04:59] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah, [00:05:00] but watching them get it on, I'm like, yeah, okay, I'm into this. I'm okay with this. I'd rather watch this than watch them try to work out their relationship issues and have these talks that go nowhere and they're super annoying and Immaturity happening. How do you feel about Ezra and Aria?

[00:05:18] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I don't know why it was such a trope to do teachers with students in teen dramas Like I just feel like that I I can't get over that in the older I get the more I'm like, why did this?

[00:05:29] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Why was this a thing? That's super weird but I do think that when Aria and Ezra are like getting more physical and not talking about it. You can kind of forget and go back to the beginning when you didn't know that he was her teacher. So it's like a little bit less, but it's still just like, she's a child, so leave her

[00:05:50] ILISSA TENIO: alone.

[00:05:51] ILISSA TENIO: It's always in the back of your brain, but this show has like conditioned you to just be okay with it, which obviously we know it's not. But the first time [00:06:00] we do see them together, it's a very brief scene of them talking and then they're okay. making out in the bathroom. Yeah. And then you go back, it's like, you remember that, and then you go here, and you're like, okay, well, this is what they're good at, essentially, even though it's, we have made a mention that this is, they have not had sex yet, which, thank goodness, they had, you know, definitely solidified that she's still 16.

[00:06:25] ILISSA TENIO: That's

[00:06:25] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: such a weird thing to include, because you'd think that with the bathroom makeout, that they would have just done it right then

[00:06:31] ILISSA TENIO: and there. Right? It's like, do they, have they done stuff? Have they done nothing? I think they've done stuff. Stuff,

[00:06:40] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: right? Yeah, surely.

[00:06:42] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Like, definitely some

[00:06:44] ILISSA TENIO: stuff. Definitely hand stuff.

[00:06:47] ILISSA TENIO: Definitely.

[00:06:48] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: At least. At least over the pants stuff.

[00:06:50] ILISSA TENIO: At least. But how did you feel about seeing her do that [00:07:00] also with Jason? Who I love. I just love him, but, you know, I know he's also incredibly cringe right now. And he's older too! Incredibly cringe.

[00:07:12] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I want to know what's going on in Rosewood, that all of these people in their 20s are so willing to hang out with teenagers and so interested in having sex with them.

[00:07:22] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Like, I, I don't understand. I'm, I'm from a small town and like, there'd be one girl. That was like 14 dating a 20 year old and you'd be like, oh, that's weird. But it was not everyone. Yeah.

[00:07:34] ILISSA TENIO: No. And we were saying in our group chat tonight that all of our listeners were like, are there no one of age? There's no one over 23, 25 that live in this town that these guys can fawn over?

[00:07:48] ILISSA TENIO: It's just these high school kids. And every single one of them have their own perspective 25 year old. It's disgusting. It's so weird. Yeah. It's

[00:07:56] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: really weird. Which, why didn't we just make them younger? You know what I'm saying? Just make, [00:08:00] or just have one, but like Jason we could have made younger. Garrett, got Garrett and uh, Jenna fooling around.

[00:08:06] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: The other age gap relationship.

[00:08:09] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. I wonder, Kirsten, you didn't read any of the books, right?

[00:08:13] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I haven't read the books, but I've started getting a lot of TikTok content lately of people breaking down some of the books and I might read them now. They sound so much more wild than the show.

[00:08:28] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah, and I just was wondering, I don't remember if, I'm assuming Jason is in the, is Jason in the book?

[00:08:36] ILISSA TENIO: I don't remember. So I'm like, why, did they age him up on purpose or not? Like, you know, what were the things, why did they cho, the choices were confusing. Right. I think Jason is in the book. Yes.

[00:08:48] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Yeah. He has a book character page on the wiki. Oh, okay.

[00:08:51] ILISSA TENIO: So, yeah. But it's just, like, unnecessary and, uh, they purposely don't tell you how old he is or, I mean, you can assume how old Ezra [00:09:00] is, being that he's fresh out of college and now he's teaching.

[00:09:03] ILISSA TENIO: He's 23. Right? Like, that's just what makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. He's

[00:09:07] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: also so young to have a full time teaching job. Right? Oh, yeah.

[00:09:11] ILISSA TENIO: Very. Right? He just got that so quick. Yeah, so easy for some people. And now he's got a college professor job, so. Okay, so let's get into the nitty gritty of the Aria storyline.

[00:09:24] ILISSA TENIO: She's quite literally filling the Jason Bern, and she's having these It's very, uh, hot sex dreams and I was dying because they trick you. They think you think that Ezra and Aria are hooking up and then it switches to Jason. You're like, Oh wait, this can't be real, obviously. Um, well, or maybe it could be a little threesome actually going on there.

[00:09:47] ILISSA TENIO: I doubt, uh, Ezra would like to do that. However, uh, you do see Aria have so much contemplation this episode with Jason and her thoughts. And she's like, why am I thinking? thinking about him. And [00:10:00] our listener, Mike, had asked us a question, which I think is kind of funny, because he asked, what was more of a nightmare, hooking up with Jason, hooking up with Ezra, or hooking up with Chuck Bass?

[00:10:11] ILISSA TENIO: Oh, God. I've had, while we were doing Gossip Girl, I had multiple Chuck Bass dreams. Unwillingly, like, I did not want to. My brain and subconscious was doing other things for me. And with Dan. No, I had a

[00:10:25] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: lot of Dan dreams.

[00:10:28] ILISSA TENIO: It's just, it must just be Penn Badgley, right?

[00:10:31] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, I think that Chuck has to be more of a nightmare, right?

[00:10:34] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: But I'm not the one who's experienced it, so please. True that,

[00:10:39] ILISSA TENIO: yeah. I'm waiting, I'm waiting for my Jason dream. I could go without having an Ezra dream, but I wouldn't say no. But I think out of all of them, even though I've had the Chuck Bass dream. Actually, I'm gonna say it's Ezra. I'm gonna say it's Ezra.

[00:10:53] ILISSA TENIO: Wow! He's just not doing it for me at all. He's just so [00:11:00] I'm just not The character is just not doing it for me. Also,

[00:11:04] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: is there something wrong with his hair? I feel like he looks really weird. I watched the last episode and this one just to be ready. And I just felt like he looked so weird when he was in the pottery room.

[00:11:16] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Yeah. Like something was wrong with his appearance. And I, I don't know what it is. Maybe his hair, his face is the

[00:11:21] ILISSA TENIO: same. I don't know. Maybe he was like disheveled because Aria like didn't answer his phone calls and stuff. And he was like rushing over. To me, he looked. To ghost her. I said it

[00:11:30] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: last week, he looked skinnier.

[00:11:32] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: So maybe he just looks like unhealthy a little bit. So it could be the hair and we're stressed out and. I mean, I know it's not that deep, but like, we can say it is.

[00:11:42] ILISSA TENIO: I don't think they played that up, but something's not working for me. Aria continues to be having these thoughts, and then she has these awkward moments with Jason.

[00:11:52] ILISSA TENIO: She sees him in the hallway, and Emily catches on. She's like, what was that about? And she's like, you're blushing. And she tells Emily, I had [00:12:00] a dream about him, like that, and Emily's like, what, but you're with Ezra. And I'm like, can't people have thoughts about other people? I mean, this is normal, right? I mean, I have dreams

[00:12:09] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: all the time.

[00:12:10] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: All the time.

[00:12:10] ILISSA TENIO: Right, right. And happily married. Dreams all the time. All the time. All the time.

[00:12:17] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: They're 16, though. Yeah. They're 16. Like, they

[00:12:19] ILISSA TENIO: don't know. Right. They don't know what's normal. Their hormones are probably all over the place. Yeah. And even for

[00:12:25] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Aria, now it's even pemped up. Because she's in denial of like, oh my god, I have to totally put these Jason feelings to the side, I can't even let them in.

[00:12:34] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Which is just like, let me ramp up to

[00:12:36] ILISSA TENIO: Ezra. Right. So she like walks right into Ezra's office and starts stripping down with this It's like a necklace thing going on underneath and he's like, Whoa, I'm like, relax, Ezra. But she's like, is it hot in here? And she locks the door and she starts undressing and they start making out.

[00:12:55] ILISSA TENIO: And then he says, and Molly, Molly, interpreter says they were having sex because he [00:13:00] said, Oh, I only have 15 minutes. And Aria said, that's enough time. And then like, no, they purposely tell you later on that she has not had sex with him. Yeah. In her dream. Right. Yeah. But he's like, what is happening here?

[00:13:13] ILISSA TENIO: What's going on? And he does question it, but she's like, oh, I'm just happy. Let's be happy together. I'm just happy. Yeah. I want to note that there was an interview with I Marlene King and she had said to this point, that it was intentionally vague. that Ezra and Aria were sexually active, um, but they would have, they would make it clear in season two.

[00:13:38] ILISSA TENIO: So this is them making it clear that in Aria's dream, she does say like, we have not had sex, but it was worth the wait. And then she has another Jason dream. So. Interesting. Okay.

[00:13:53] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Like, why would she want her first time to be in an

[00:13:55] ILISSA TENIO: office? Right? I know. And it was. It was confusing. I [00:14:00] think they were trying to fake out the audience because it looks like they're back in Ezra's apartment, right?

[00:14:04] ILISSA TENIO: Like in his bed. Yeah. So it's like, did you take it there? But obviously we find out that that's a dream. Right. But yeah, why would you want to do it on like a leather couch in his office?

[00:14:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. Like, to me, I read that as, I need to just get this going and maybe if I do it, then I won't have these Jason feelings

[00:14:21] ILISSA TENIO: anymore.

[00:14:22] ILISSA TENIO: Right. Like, I need to be sexually active so that I can just this is going to, we're going to feel the

[00:14:28] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: love and all the things and the Jason stuff's just going to go out the window.

[00:14:32] ILISSA TENIO: That's what I like how the mighty have fallen because last week we were just talking about how we loved how she wasn't like falling at Ezra's feet.

[00:14:38] ILISSA TENIO: And now she's like Climbing back up, like, hey, help me here, I'm drowning, because she's feeling now insecure in her relationship because she's having these dreams about Jason. Right. Which, you know, that's a her problem. And then Aria tells Emily again that she's having these dreams, and Emily says, well, if you're dreaming about someone, that means [00:15:00] that you want something from them.

[00:15:02] ILISSA TENIO: I kind of agree with

[00:15:03] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: that, actually.

[00:15:05] ILISSA TENIO: Oh, okay. Like even

[00:15:07] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. Well, in a way, because I feel like when, this is how I've always felt, that when you dream of someone or if you have a conversation with someone in your dreams that you haven't spoken to in a long time, it's kind of yourself working out a problem or an issue or trying to reach a resolution with that person.

[00:15:22] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: So yeah, I kind of get what Emily's saying there. Like a

[00:15:25] ILISSA TENIO: closure thing. Yes, big time closure. Yeah, absolutely. Then Jason comes to the Montgomery's to give Aria a card for the youth center, which I'm like, why aren't we giving this to the parents? Wow. But maybe the parents don't know that Jason knows, well I guess they does because he was at the dinner party.

[00:15:45] ILISSA TENIO: But also, like, so we can see Aria. Of course. Of course. He's obsessed. Obsessed. He is obsessed. So much so. You know? And so he's like comforting Aria [00:16:00] and he puts his hand on her shoulder and it was like the longest three seconds of my entire life and even Aria's like Um, okay, I gotta go study now. And it's very obvious that she doesn't have to go study.

[00:16:14] ILISSA TENIO: She doesn't even wait for him to close the door before she, like, moves on to, like, throwing her books on the table. Like, it's obvious to him that she doesn't have to study.

[00:16:23] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Well, isn't that where she says, like, oh, I have a test and then It's like doesn't know what class. Right. He's

[00:16:28] ILISSA TENIO: like, I don't think that that teacher teaches that class.

[00:16:30] ILISSA TENIO: How does he

[00:16:31] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: know what teacher teaches what? Hasn't it been a while since we've been out of high school? Or is it because he's back in doing the whole counseling thing?

[00:16:37] ILISSA TENIO: Right. We know the staff. He's back in the circle a little bit. Yeah. Well, would he know

[00:16:42] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: anything because of his sister being still in like the group?

[00:16:46] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Oh,

[00:16:46] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: that's true. Or like,

[00:16:47] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: like being in the know. A year ago or whatever was in that group and maybe would have given some info. Right,

[00:16:54] ILISSA TENIO: good point. Yes. Yeah, so then we have this [00:17:00] bigger scene here where Jason tells Aria that someone has broken into his shed, which we'll get to. And Aria immediately defends Mike and Jason's like, hey, I wasn't even going there.

[00:17:10] ILISSA TENIO: I wasn't suspecting that. And then while we have this conversation, Jenna and Garrett are in a car. Garrett watching them. Um, and he's explaining to Jenna that Jason and Aria are talking and he is like, yeah, well, you know, that doesn't look like anything's happening. And Jenna's annoyed. 'cause obviously she, we know she can't see.

[00:17:32] ILISSA TENIO: And Jenna says if they start hooking up and he starts remembering things from that night, then they're gonna be in trouble.

[00:17:40] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: So, like, to me, who knows nothing, I'm like, oh, they know something. And last week, Liz, you were like, I don't know what they're talking about.

[00:17:49] ILISSA TENIO: Um, one of our listeners, Kat, had sent me an email and explained it to me.

[00:17:52] ILISSA TENIO: I can't obviously tell you just yet, but I was like, oh, that's what they're talking about. Like, there's so many things. Even she's like, yeah, there's so many [00:18:00] things that they hint to and give you clues for and you have to remember them all. There's just so much going on.

[00:18:06] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: These two remind me of Boris and Natasha from the whole Bullwinkle world, like, watching these two in the car, they make me laugh so much.

[00:18:17] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I don't approve of their relationship, but like, I thoroughly

[00:18:21] ILISSA TENIO: enjoy Jenna. They're a good team. It's fun teamwork going

[00:18:24] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: on there. Kirsten, how do you feel about

[00:18:26] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Jenna? I'm trying to like put myself back into where I was watching this. Yeah. Cause I feel like Jenna is, like, she's just serving, you know, like she, she's really giving what needs to be given at this point.

[00:18:41] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: And I wish that she was more of the story.

[00:18:45] ILISSA TENIO: I know.

[00:18:45] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. I

[00:18:46] ILISSA TENIO: know. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like when we first When the show was first on, I was first watching her, like, I didn't realize how much of, like, a presence she was, and I'm like, no, she's, like, [00:19:00] everything. Yeah. Yeah. Minus, we know of, like, the stuff. Right. That she's done with Toby.

[00:19:06] ILISSA TENIO: With Toby. Well, yeah. Whatever. Yeah. But other than that, you know, if you need a villain, she's, like, a great villain. She's a really good villain. Yeah. Yeah, but they're witnessing Aria and Jason talking, and then he just says to her like, Look, I care about Mike, but I care about you. And I wanted to see if you feel the same way.

[00:19:28] ILISSA TENIO: And he doesn't even wait for her to kind of answer. He goes in and leans in and kisses her. And she doesn't stop him until she stops him. And then says like, Look, I'm not available. And she runs away. What did you think of the kiss, guys?

[00:19:45] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I mean, I think it had to happen. It was bound to happen at some point or another.

[00:19:49] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's not like I was fawning over this. I'm still not feeling the Jason. So, like,

[00:19:54] ILISSA TENIO: you do, Liz? You have your Caleb. I love Caleb.

[00:19:58] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Jason will get there. [00:20:00] At a point, he starts to Jason. Yes! That's

[00:20:03] ILISSA TENIO: what I'm saying! And I'm like, when does it happen though? Because I need to show Michelle. Yeah, that I can't tell you.

[00:20:10] ILISSA TENIO: I know. It's like, there's a thing. There's like a moment you're like, oh, it's Jason. It's

[00:20:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: just Jason. Jason has arrived. Still waiting for it. That's okay. But, at least she did say something. I'm not available. She didn't leave him hanging like, I can't do this and run away. She

[00:20:23] ILISSA TENIO: says sorry. Like, I'm sorry. Like, kind of like, I want to, but I'm sorry that I can't.

[00:20:29] ILISSA TENIO: Right. I'm not available. Not available.

[00:20:31] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: But what do you think, like, is that highlighting too much that she has an illegal relationship? Right. Or, like, should she have maybe just said no?

[00:20:40] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. Well, I think, I think she maybe just didn't want to hurt his feelings, right? Like, I think it's clear that she does like him, and I think it's obvious to him.

[00:20:51] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. Like, he's feeling something. Absolutely. You know? So I think she's just like, hey, I'm not available, like, sorry, like, kind of like bad timing is how [00:21:00] I interpreted it, because I think that she does like him.

[00:21:02] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I think so, too. She's definitely curious, at least. And I guess not available, we'll see what happens, could be Mentally, I'm not there, or

[00:21:12] ILISSA TENIO: Right, there's a lot going on in my family, and mentally I'm not there.

[00:21:15] ILISSA TENIO: I'm just

[00:21:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: curious if Jason will continue to pursue it. And be like, what did you mean by that? Like, do you have a boyfriend? Is it just bad timing? And if she will come out and tell him. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. I mean, you guys know.

[00:21:31] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Well, I really, like, it's so hard to remember what happens on this show, like, and especially I watch so much trash that I have to start erasing it or I wouldn't have any room for, like,

[00:21:43] ILISSA TENIO: my life or job or friends.

[00:21:44] ILISSA TENIO: Right? And then they all blend together. Mm hmm. Like, all these teen shows, you're like, wait, was that that show or this show? Like, you don't remember because they all have those similar plots,

[00:21:54] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: so. Yeah. What, have either of you watched Riverdale? Yes. Because I feel [00:22:00] like the Riverdale plots blend in with the Pretty Little Liars plots to me just because they're both so off the wall.

[00:22:06] ILISSA TENIO: Yes. I mean, especially in later seasons, there's a lot of parallels, I feel, between Riverdale and Pretty Little Liars. Yeah. It's too much. In a, it's just whack. It's just whack. Yeah. Michelle and I had, uh, watched, we decided it was season three we got up to, right Michelle? No, I think it was season four.

[00:22:22] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Season four. Whatever the Chad Michael Murray cult leader. Chad Michael Murray, yeah. Spoiler, guys, sorry. I think that's season three. Oh, no. Oh, okay,

[00:22:29] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: three. Season four has like a prep school.

[00:22:31] ILISSA TENIO: Oh, yeah, we did do that. Oh, we watched that. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we watched four, we stopped, and then we randomly watched the season Six or seven finale.

[00:22:41] ILISSA TENIO: What was our most recent season? Seven? The one that they ended on? Seven, I think. Yeah, seven. We watched season six finale, and then we watched season seven finale, and we really liked season seven.

[00:22:53] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: That is a confusing ride to go on without watching any of season six. Season

[00:22:58] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: six finale, we were both like [00:23:00] What is happening, but the seventh the finale of

[00:23:03] ILISSA TENIO: seven we cried we cried we did watch the last little bit.

[00:23:07] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah It was good. It was good. They did a good job. I think but yes a lot of like parallels going on between these two shows Yeah, I find they're very similar Uh, so we have a side story of Mike, which is actually really sad to watch this 14 year old boy going through something very clearly, and both of his parents are on opposite ends.

[00:23:33] ILISSA TENIO: They don't really know how to handle it. And Ella thinks that he needs some mental health days at home. Byron's kind of pushing him to go back to school, and it's clear that Mike's having either Some depression or anxiety and he can't physically get out of bed now, like it's getting to the point where he wants to be in the dark.

[00:23:51] ILISSA TENIO: He wants to be under the covers, like really stuff that we should be paying attention to, which is so funny. Not funny, but that I never remember. This [00:24:00] haven't even happened in the show, right? Like this Yeah. Subplot of Mike. And so Byron proceeds to go up there, and he tries to talk to Mike, and then when he comes down, he tells Ella that he's actually really worried about him because he's showing signs, um, of Something that his brother Scott went through so it's not really clear and honestly, we don't go back to this I had to google it cuz I'm like, do we find out more about Scott?

[00:24:25] ILISSA TENIO: We don't but I think it's very yeah I think you're supposed to just kind of either Assume that maybe he tried to commit suicide or he did commute suicide or had some really bad depression and Byron is really worried about Mike, which is crazy, and Ella's kind of like, he's not the same, like, let's, she kind of brushes it off, and I wish that she would, I don't remember if we continue this into later seasons, but my memory, obviously, is not, not great.

[00:24:56] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Maybe you guys don't remember, but does Mike become more [00:25:00] of a developed character?

[00:25:01] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah, we do a little bit more with him. I wouldn't say, like, tremendous. Yeah. Stuff. Okay.

[00:25:08] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I, I feel like he gets a little bit more, but I don't think it's, he's never like maincast.

[00:25:13] ILISSA TENIO: Hmm. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:15] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: It's so weird.

[00:25:16] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Like this town, like there's been a murder. There's been all of this stuff has happened. They've got all of these family issues. And yeah, everyone just expects the kids to just go to school. And get good grades and act like everything's normal. And it's just so, especially if Rosewood was supposed to be this tiny, tiny town, you'd think there'd be a little bit more understanding for what everyone's going through, but there's just.

[00:25:39] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: No sympathy.

[00:25:41] ILISSA TENIO: Right. And so now knowing if there's, like, some mental health issues in the Montgomery family that you would definitely want your kids to be at least talking to someone because what Mike is saying, and especially that we heard him say that he wanted to steal a gun from a cop. Right. Like, this is very [00:26:00] concerning.

[00:26:00] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. It's got a lot of shit going on. Okay, over to Spencer. She and company, they go back to the morgue to see if they can find this page five, which of course it's not going to be there. And Emily is like, obviously someone got to it before we did. And they overhear, as I teased last week, Michelle, that Jenna is telling a nurse how she's So excited.

[00:26:24] ILISSA TENIO: I think there she wants to go see Kate May, and she is a candidate for this synthetic corneal transplant. So Toby does. Eventually, we don't see Toby in this episode, but Spencer says that Toby tells her about that Jen is a candidate for this surgery, and the girls are so freaked out because with her sight back, who knows?

[00:26:44] ILISSA TENIO: what she'd be capable of. She's so powerful. And then she has a, a cop on her side, you know? So the girls are like, um, this means war for us if she gets her sight back. And then Hannah's like, does that mean that we're off the hook? I'm like, girl, you still did it [00:27:00] though. Like, what do you mean are you off the hook?

[00:27:03] ILISSA TENIO: And Spencer's like, maybe guilt wise. I'm like, you guys don't feel guilty every single day for blinding another individual. I would, that would, I wouldn't take that to my grave. I would never forget about it. Yeah. So. Yikes, Hannah, she's so naive, so naive. I mean, they all are.

[00:27:20] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: It's fine. I still love her. She can get away with it.

[00:27:22] ILISSA TENIO: Right? I love Hannah. Isn't she the best? Do you have, is she your favorite liar? Because she's, she's ours.

[00:27:27] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: She's my favorite by far, uh, and unlike you two, my least favorite by far is Spencer, so.

[00:27:35] ILISSA TENIO: Wow.

[00:27:36] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Okay. I can, I can understand.

[00:27:38] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: It's a, I think she's affected by like looking a lot like someone I really don't like in real life too, so that like didn't help, but I just have a, I don't know, I just think she's unbearable.

[00:27:48] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: She's like the richest one, she plays field hockey, I'm just like, I don't like

[00:27:52] ILISSA TENIO: you. She definitely, um. is very intense. She's a very intense person, [00:28:00] almost where it's like, all right, you just need to take it down a couple of notches. I agree. For me. Yeah. I like that she wants to figure this stuff out. But like, honestly, even though that she wanted to go into the shed of Jason's, I'm like, private property girl, like, don't go in there.

[00:28:15] ILISSA TENIO: Like, she gets herself. She's fearless

[00:28:17] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: when it comes to this stuff, because she's got to figure

[00:28:20] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: it out. But it's like, maybe if they had, like, talked to an adult instead of relying on Spencer, it wouldn't have taken so many seasons to figure this out. I don't know.

[00:28:29] ILISSA TENIO: Right. Right. That's always the age old question.

[00:28:32] ILISSA TENIO: Like, if they actually told someone else that this was happening, then we would have not had a show because this is just ridiculous. Right. Right. She's gung ho, however, about blaming Jason. She's like, now in her head, you know, at first it was Toby and then it was Ian and now it's Jason. Jason's on her radar and she wants to figure out how he's a part of this somehow.

[00:28:55] ILISSA TENIO: So she spies on him at home and Kim in the chat was like, she's in a [00:29:00] red, a bright red shirt and she's trying to hide in the bushes. I'm like, there's Obviously, it's very obvious that Jason is going to see her there. Um, but he has a gardener there working for him at the moment and the gardener, I guess, like, why would this guy try to go in his shed?

[00:29:13] ILISSA TENIO: But they, of course, they make it a point to show that Jason doesn't want him going in the shed and then we see where Jason hides the key. And Spencer Just like, now she's like, I need to get in there. So, before that, she mentions to her mom about Peter burying a potential murder weapon, and Veronica is surprised to hear about it, but she ultimately agrees with Peter's decision, which Spencer is very surprised about, which I'm like, are you surprised?

[00:29:42] ILISSA TENIO: Because Yeah. I feel like they're such a unit when it comes to their children. I feel like once one makes a decision, the other will always back them up. Well, they're

[00:29:52] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: also very much on the same page of we do not trust that family. Nope. So, they're a united [00:30:00] front on that, and Spencer, that just feeds into what, how Spencer's feeling.

[00:30:04] ILISSA TENIO: Right. Exactly. Like, well, if my parents say he's untrustworthy, you know, he's not trustworthy, then maybe he did do something. And

[00:30:10] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: why is she surprised that her parents would destroy evidence that might possibly connect her to a murder? Like, they obviously don't want her to go down for this murder, whether she did it or not.

[00:30:21] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Right. Obviously, they're going to destroy

[00:30:22] ILISSA TENIO: it. Right. She will soon learn. Maybe. Well, maybe. So then she makes sure no one is home. She tells Emily, we gotta get into Jason's shed ASAP before he gets home. So she drags her in, they get the key, they open it up, and they realize it's a dark room. And in there are many developed photos, and they shine the light, and it's not looking good for Jason because it's all, like, parts of Aria.

[00:30:52] ILISSA TENIO: It's her mouth, her eyes, her hair, and the girls are creeped out as hell, and then they hear Jason, and they run [00:31:00] out, but of course, Emily drops the flashlight, and they can't go back in to get it. So when they do, they realize that the entire shed is now cleaned out, there's no photos, there's no equipment, no cameras, no surveillance cameras that Spencer claims that he was using to spy on people, and in there is just a random, their random flashlight just sitting on the floor.

[00:31:21] ILISSA TENIO: Table or is it? Yeah on the table, right? It's so creepy. Mm hmm,

[00:31:26] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: but just like the close ups of her

[00:31:27] ILISSA TENIO: lips like whoa

[00:31:32] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: So what he took those through her like bedroom window while she's sleeping like it's like Look, how did you get all these pictures of

[00:31:38] ILISSA TENIO: her parts? Not

[00:31:42] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: one is

[00:31:43] ILISSA TENIO: her full face. I know right so strange It's very artsy fartsy.

[00:31:49] ILISSA TENIO: Yep, but it's very creepy. In a creepy, creepy way.

[00:31:55] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: What did you think about how long it took Spencer and Emily to realize it was a [00:32:00] dark, like they step on a roll of film, they like look around for so long before it's like, oh my god, it's a dark

[00:32:07] ILISSA TENIO: room. Anything to drag out the plot, right? Anything. There were so many.

[00:32:14] ILISSA TENIO: And then you see. It zooms it on Jason's face like a triple zoom, and he's like got this evils

[00:32:21] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: in the red light in like the dark room.

[00:32:23] ILISSA TENIO: It was light. It was, it was so bad. It was so bad. Yeah. Oh my God. I was like, wait till Michelle sees this episode. I was cringing, man so much. I laughed out loud so many times.

[00:32:33] ILISSA TENIO: My first watch. Yeah. And then I think Kate. Like sent in her emails and she was like, Oh my God, I, Michelle's gonna cringe so much at this episode. I'm like, yep, it is, yeah, it's on a next level. All right, over to Emily. She's like a mad woman throwing out all of these topical products. She doesn't care if it's Hannah's, if it's hers, if it's Ashley's, she's throwing it away.

[00:32:56] ILISSA TENIO: Even Hannah's like a very expensive stolen cream, which I'm like, what were we [00:33:00] trying to like make that a dupe for? Like these days, I feel like. I don't know, would it be like, I don't know, she wouldn't, like, steal, like, La Mer,

[00:33:09] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: or, I don't know. it was a soy moisturizer, so I, like, took it as, like, soy. I don't know if it's soy fresh or, what's that?

[00:33:15] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Oh, mmm.

[00:33:16] ILISSA TENIO: Yes, fresh. There you go. The fresh soy. I thought it was soy cleanser or something. Soy cleanser. Yeah. Let's go with that. She stole it from like Sephora. That's right. Modern day it'd be Drunk

[00:33:25] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Elephant for

[00:33:25] ILISSA TENIO: sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. The Drunk Elephant has Exploded. Yeah. Mike asks, is there a product that we would keep even if there was a chance that there was some HGH in it just because you love it or because it's expensive?

[00:33:41] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: No, personally, I'll just go buy

[00:33:44] ILISSA TENIO: new.

[00:33:45] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Right, yeah. Yeah, because the only thing I love that much is like my snail mucin and it's really only 20 so I could just go

[00:33:53] ILISSA TENIO: buy a new one. I fucking love the snail mucin. I have the snail mucin and the snail mucin cream. [00:34:00] Oh,

[00:34:00] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I used the eye cream and I didn't think it was that good.

[00:34:03] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I also

[00:34:04] ILISSA TENIO: used the eye cream and did not think it was that good. But I also don't really have, I feel like maybe if my eyelids were like more dry or something maybe it would be better. But I love that mucin and I know it's hyped up but I really believe in

[00:34:17] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: it. For the people it works for, it's amazing. Like obviously some people, they shouldn't use it.

[00:34:24] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: And when it

[00:34:24] ILISSA TENIO: works, it works. I agree. I agree. So, this is not mucin, but we can just get another bottle for twenty something dollars. Yeah, it's not expensive. Right, right. So, it's fine. We can throw away everything. Emily's dealing with the aftermath of being home, uh, after the The A of it all and this secret that she has about the HGH and then A sends her a message that they're willing to do anything and use this information.

[00:34:51] ILISSA TENIO: If Emily doesn't do what they say, basically circus season one with Hannah. And so Samara and Emily are dating and they're like [00:35:00] getting more serious. And I made a mention that they kissed in this episode, but we didn't even have this, like, romantic, like, first kiss thing. So I was like, why, why don't we do that for them?

[00:35:11] ILISSA TENIO: Like, they deserve to have a first kiss. Yeah, I agree. Thing, you know? Yeah. Even though we don't like her. What do you think about Samara, Kirsten? Because Michelle is having, She does not like her. Have you seen the, have you seen

[00:35:25] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: the OC? A lot of the OC, but I haven't seen all of the OC. Have you seen season

[00:35:29] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: one?

[00:35:29] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. Okay. So there's a villain, Oliver, who's like obsessed with Marissa. Okay. So Samara was just giving me Oliver vibes and I just. I just didn't trust her for a little bit. Maybe she gets better,

[00:35:42] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: but I don't know. It's giving obsessed the way she just suddenly was at school. Like it's not a great vibe, but at least she's age appropriate.

[00:35:49] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: So I, she's not like at the top

[00:35:51] ILISSA TENIO: of my hit list. Right? We think, we think she's age appropriate. I think she is. Oh yeah. The same age as Emily? Like, we don't know. [00:36:00] I don't

[00:36:00] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: know. I guess. I just thought she was going to high school, so I thought it was okay.

[00:36:04] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's what they want you to think. And that's what we're gonna think.

[00:36:07] ILISSA TENIO: Because I can't think any more about the ages. No more predators. No more predators. No more predators. No more liars. Right? Like, it's just too much. Um, but I just feel like, oh, I was like, oh, they really didn't show, you know, like, um, them going from, like, the last episode to this episode, but they're, things are getting, you know, more serious, and they want to have this girls night playing poker, and apparently it was supposed to be at Quinn's house, but then, it fell through with her parents.

[00:36:31] ILISSA TENIO: And so Ashley overhears it, and she is like, have it here. And like, I want to, you know, you live here, and I want you to feel like this is your home too, and she wants to understand her and want her to feel comfortable, which, I just, you I thought it was so great. And then she's like, how will I know, how will I know which girl is your girlfriend and which girl is a friend?

[00:36:50] ILISSA TENIO: And I'm like, well, you could, Emily's like, I'll tell you.

[00:36:56] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: It's super cute. She's like, I want you to feel at home here, but you have the [00:37:00] same rules, like no girlfriends in the bedroom, which is, you know what? That's great. Accepting, not being weird about Emily's identity. Like, this is

[00:37:08] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: great. I loved it. Loved it.

[00:37:10] ILISSA TENIO: I loved it so much.

[00:37:11] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Yeah. Yeah. Ashley's by far, I think, but. Best parent on the show like even just her plot lines are more entertaining than the other

[00:37:18] ILISSA TENIO: parents. Totally. Yeah, they're a little bit more scandalous Yes Yeah, Ella and Byron are like so like Ella is so great by herself I obviously the listeners know how I feel about Byron, but I love Ashley.

[00:37:32] ILISSA TENIO: I just think her dynamic Especially with her daughter and just with the other mothers and just like she's a powerhouse and she doesn't take shit from people and I just Really love her as a person and a mother and it was really nice to see her except emily for everything And so the girls are having this poker night and everything's going really well and samara's so happy that emily's getting along with her friends Samara brings quinn and then two other girls [00:38:00] bianca and zoe and so at this point Uh, A has texted Emily, now twice, that they want Emily to give Zoe her phone number.

[00:38:11] ILISSA TENIO: Which everyone was emailing me about, like, calling her Jenny Humphrey. They're like, oh, Jenny Humphrey gets the number. They're like, Circa Season 3, Jenny Humphrey is getting the number. I'm like, this was, I don't even know why we, I mean, I guess we had to, like, stir up shit between Samara and Emily, but like, this was a device that we used.

[00:38:35] ILISSA TENIO: Also,

[00:38:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: like, we just messed with Emily, with the, we just messed with her, you know, the steroid cream. So, the steroid cream. It's just like, we're, I don't know, it's weird.

[00:38:46] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Which, like, that's not how HGA works, I don't think. Like, I really just, I don't think that's, How it works, but I'm not a scientist or like a bodybuilder, so I don't know.

[00:38:57] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Uh, well, and like, what if she [00:39:00] had at the table been like, hey, like, let's all exchange phone numbers. Zoe, here's my number. Would that have met A's?

[00:39:06] ILISSA TENIO: I don't think so. Qualification? I think A then would have been like, you kind of like, wimped out and now I'm gonna. Tell everyone about your HGH. How long does HGH stay in your system?

[00:39:17] ILISSA TENIO: I don't, right? That's so true. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense. I'm looking it up. Also, okay, 9 to

[00:39:24] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: 17 hours.

[00:39:27] ILISSA TENIO: Like, Well, I guess she was rubbing the cream on, like, every couple of hours, so maybe she's got, like, really high doses of it? I

[00:39:35] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: think it'd be gone by now. Like, I guess he would have the medical records, but then she could just say, test me, I'm not taking it.

[00:39:42] ILISSA TENIO: Right.

[00:39:43] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Doesn't she even ask, what's his face? Test me

[00:39:45] ILISSA TENIO: again? Wren. Wren, yeah. She was weeping. He

[00:39:51] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: said, I'll see what I

[00:39:52] ILISSA TENIO: can do. I'll see what I can do. I'll buy you some time.

[00:39:55] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Okay, wait, but if you were Emily and you get this text at this poker game, wouldn't you be like, Oh [00:40:00] my God, A is one of these girls? I don't know because it's like A picked out Zoe.

[00:40:05] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's

[00:40:05] ILISSA TENIO: so particular. I don't know that it's so pretty. It's so particular. It's so specific that Emily is like They are watching us like every move, but they have to know their names I know they must have a rigged microphone in the house Ew. Maybe they're like a

[00:40:22] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: lip

[00:40:23] ILISSA TENIO: reader. Or a really good lip reader.

[00:40:26] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. Right? I don't know. Right. You have to like live the fantasy. Sure. Which we

[00:40:32] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: live the fantasy. I know. I live it, but then sometimes I come out of it and I'm like, just go back into it. Totally.

[00:40:37] ILISSA TENIO: Just go back into it. Just accept the fantasy. Just accept it. Yeah. Just accept the fantasy. Um, so Emily. Emily.

[00:40:43] ILISSA TENIO: does give, uh, Zoe her phone number. She's like, here, you left this, and Zoe's like, what is it? And she's like, my phone number. And Quinn sees it, and Quinn's like, not working for me. And so then Samara seems to call Emily a few times, but Emily doesn't pick up, which [00:41:00] is obviously suspicious. And then so Samara comes to the house, and she's like, following her around screaming, and Emily's like, not even reacting.

[00:41:06] ILISSA TENIO: She's like, you want a soda? Like, I'm like, oh my god, Emily, this is. So Samara's like, you didn't think I was going to find out and I'm like, so you want to like relax and have a soda. But Samara is like, I don't believe you and I'm going to go, but by

[00:41:22] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: gaslighting, she's like, I'm just bonding with your friends.

[00:41:25] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Isn't that what

[00:41:26] ILISSA TENIO: you wanted? Like I was proud of Samara being like, no, I'm going to stand up for myself. It's clear that you're lying and I'm not going to take it. Yeah. And I was like, good, good, good for

[00:41:35] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: you girl. Yeah. No point for Samara for sure.

[00:41:38] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah, our listeners, like lots of them, asked how we would approach this text, uh, this uh, giving the phone number to Zoe.

[00:41:45] ILISSA TENIO: Like, how would we have done it better?

[00:41:47] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I probably would have done it the way you just described it, of like, hey guys, let's

[00:41:52] ILISSA TENIO: all exchange numbers. Yeah, but that's not going to be good enough for A. I, I

[00:41:57] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: would at least make sure the room was clear before

[00:41:59] ILISSA TENIO: I do [00:42:00] it. Yeah, I think I would have just been like, Wait for Quinn to go to the bathroom.

[00:42:06] ILISSA TENIO: Or like, yeah, or just like, Hey, I'm giving everyone my number. Like, maybe pretend like I gave everyone else my number, wouldn't really, like, and then be just like, here, here's my number, like, we can all, we should all hang out. Not like very, but I guess A would have not taken that well either. Right, right, right.

[00:42:23] ILISSA TENIO: I

[00:42:24] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: mean, they didn't say she couldn't also give her number to Quinn. She could have just done the thing with, like, uh, With Zoey, then been like, oh, and Quinn, I also have it for you. I want to keep in touch. Yeah.

[00:42:35] ILISSA TENIO: Mm

[00:42:36] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: hmm. Yep. On these little pieces of paper. Everybody gets one. Yeah, so weird. So

[00:42:41] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: weird. But I guess like, they didn't have smartphones yet.

[00:42:45] ILISSA TENIO: No, not a smartphone. They definitely had like, you know, the flip or the. Motorola or the, yeah, the chocolate, whatever one. But Don not an iPhone. Yeah. I, wait, I wonder when we get those, when did the iPhone ? Like [00:43:00] when did everyone

[00:43:00] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: forget them? One, twenty eleven. I had an iPhone for sure, so I know they existed.

[00:43:08] ILISSA TENIO: All right, so maybe soon the girls will like up their, their technology. I'm surprised they don't have blackberries. I know. Yeah, I know. It was so Gossip girl. Yeah, gossip Girl. Was Blackberry after Blackberry. Yeah. So good. Alright, lastly, we have to talk about Hannah, who sees Caleb talking to this man that she had witnessed last week in the black car, and she finds out from Caleb that this is a private eye.

[00:43:32] ILISSA TENIO: So you were correct, Michelle, and that his mother is looking for him. So Hannah and Caleb do a little research on Claudia Dawson. who is Caleb's mother, learns that she does, in fact, have other children. She lives in Montecito in California, and she is trying to get in contact with Caleb, and he really doesn't know what to do.

[00:43:52] ILISSA TENIO: The pressure is on for him. He can't even really think. He has to go take a walk, and Hannah finds him later, you know, [00:44:00] In the, uh, sitting on, on the swings, which was really sweet, and he's just, doesn't really know how to handle this situation, and Hannah says, look, it's your choice, you can enter some contact with her or not, either way, at least you'll know, and at the end of the day, it's your decision whether you want to start or end something with her, and so he ends up calling her, and His mother asks if he wants to come and visit and they can get to know each other and he has to leave tonight.

[00:44:33] ILISSA TENIO: That very day. Always tonight. It's always that minute, that second. His mom is getting him a car service to take him to the airport. Like what?

[00:44:43] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: The budget for flights non existent.

[00:44:47] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. We just have to live in it. Remember that? Yep. Yeah.

[00:44:50] ILISSA TENIO: Living in it. Living in it. And, uh, Hannah obviously is really sad to see him go, but she's happy that he's gonna have some resolution, hopefully, with his mother.[00:45:00]

[00:45:00] ILISSA TENIO: And it's really undetermined when he said he's going to come back. Like, there is no return date. So,

[00:45:06] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: you know I have to ask, is this the end?

[00:45:10] ILISSA TENIO: It's not the end.

[00:45:13] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: You probably don't see him for, like, another three years, though. And he's going to come back with like short hair and a beard and glasses. We will

[00:45:19] ILISSA TENIO: see him sooner than you think.

[00:45:21] ILISSA TENIO: Oh, okay. Sooner than you think. Okay, okay. Yeah. He returns in this season. You don't have to wait for that long. Oh, great. I like to give you a little taste so you have something to look forward to. Something to live for. That would be

[00:45:32] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: such a wild last episode if he really did go.

[00:45:36] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. Right? Well, I just thought like maybe the writers were thinking we don't really know what to do with you anymore.

[00:45:41] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: You

[00:45:41] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: gotta go. Yeah. That's like the Caleb thing. They're like, you know what, we'll write Caleb off for a while. It's so true. I don't know. Yeah. They're just like, yeah, get rid of him for a bit and then get back. No,

[00:45:53] ILISSA TENIO: it's, but, backward. I think they just love Tyler so much that they're like, we don't know what to do with you, but we want to bring you back.

[00:45:59] ILISSA TENIO: [00:46:00] And then they eventually just keep bringing him back. I'll take it. He's great. And do you ship them as a couple? Kirsten, is that like, since you love Hannah? Oh,

[00:46:08] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: yes. Oh my god. Like, loving Hannah, a big part of that is also loving Caleb and loving them together. Like, it's just so beautiful. Yeah.

[00:46:18] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. They have a really sweet, genuine relationship.

[00:46:20] ILISSA TENIO: They

[00:46:20] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: are so sweet on screen. Like, watching these two cry with each other and then saying, I love you. I was like, oh my god. I could watch you

[00:46:27] ILISSA TENIO: two all day. It's so true. I love them. They've just really, they just work.

[00:46:33] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Like, I believe that they're in love, like, even though it's only been a short period of time.

[00:46:38] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Like, you know, you're in love. It's when you know, you

[00:46:40] ILISSA TENIO: know. Right. Like, I believe this 10 times more than I believe Ezra and Aria love each other.

[00:46:47] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: You will never be able to convince me that Ezra is saying, I love you for any reason other than to get sex because they haven't slept together yet.

[00:46:57] ILISSA TENIO: And then once he gets it, he's gonna be like.

[00:46:59] ILISSA TENIO: Right. Good sex. [00:47:00] Yeah, check you later. Let me go find another high schooler. Ugh.

[00:47:04] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Ugh.

[00:47:06] ILISSA TENIO: Forget I said that.

[00:47:07] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Yuck. Yuck.

[00:47:09] ILISSA TENIO: Take it back. Um, but we have, uh, well, before that, Hannah has this epiphany, I guess, this whole episode she's not really calling her dad back because she's upset. And what she really was upset at Ashley, so I don't really know why she wasn't calling her dad back, but I guess because he decided to leave yet again and, um, after this Caleb situation, she decides she's going to call her dad and tell him that she does want to be a part of the wedding and that she will look for bridesmaid's dresses.

[00:47:34] ILISSA TENIO: So that will be coming soon. Great. Awesome. Yeah. And then our last scene, which is. So delicious. It's just this black, gloved figure in a black, their own dark room, um, or maybe Jason's dark room, who knows? And they're developing a photo and it shows to be Spencer and Emily in Jason's [00:48:00] dark room. So it's like, how did that get there?

[00:48:02] ILISSA TENIO: How did you get that footage?

[00:48:04] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Yeah, I'd like, I know we have to be in the fantasy, but the whole point was that the shed was totally blocked, so I don't. Like where was the

[00:48:12] ILISSA TENIO: camera? Where was the camera? Where was the camera?

[00:48:18] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I think there were like camera picture taking sounds when they were in the dark room, but it's like from where?

[00:48:25] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Where? Where was A? Right.

[00:48:28] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah, this one just felt like it gave me nothing.

[00:48:32] ILISSA TENIO: Right. So. I mean, this is where you have to think about some things and make some predictions because literally everyone is like, how does Michelle interpret this scene? Is Jason involved? Does A have their own, you know, dark room?

[00:48:49] ILISSA TENIO: Well, I Is Jason creepy? Yes.

[00:48:51] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Jason's creepy. Also, like I know the last scene is for us to think it's A, but I think it's just Jason. [00:49:00] Okay. He's just developing a picture he took of them. Mm, good thoughts. And that's that. It's not A, it's just Jason doing his thing wearing a glove, because, you know, he's developing

[00:49:12] ILISSA TENIO: pictures.

[00:49:13] ILISSA TENIO: I love that. It's Jason. There's no other explanation as to why he has these creepy photos of Arya, right? Well, no, that he's obsessed. He just, that just that he's obsessed. Will Arya tell anyone that he kissed her? I

[00:49:25] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: don't think so. We have to pretend this did not happen. Like, this is not real. I can't even let that be a thing.

[00:49:34] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Ezra only. That's fair. Arya loves Ezra all over the notebooks, you know?

[00:49:40] ILISSA TENIO: Right, that's definitely something she can't write. Like how you would in high school like you can't well, I guess you could because it would be in private But if anyone found that sure, but you can't write

[00:49:51] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Jason either. So no, you can't know both

[00:49:53] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: are kind of I mean, I guess like people have crushes on their teachers Like it could be.

[00:49:59] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Oh, [00:50:00] well, he was just like such a cute young teacher. Yeah

[00:50:05] ILISSA TENIO: I mean, we all had those teachers, right, that were like super young, close to your age, closer to your age than your parents age, and you're like, wow, okay, I will be staring at you and not the board, like, the entire time. Yeah. Yeah. So. I'm sure she's not the only one crushing on Ezra.

[00:50:25] ILISSA TENIO: And that's my summary, guys. So picture this Betty's it's a cold winter night, but you were warmed by the soft flickering glow of your screen and the red hot secret spilling from Liz and Michelle's lips. Or maybe it's early October. Who can tell in Rosewood? Either way, stay tuned for more, right after this break.

[00:50:49] ILISSA TENIO: Gonna go into our segments, but first, we're gonna shout out our new patron, Laura. Yay!

[00:50:58] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Welcome! We're so [00:51:00] excited you're here.

[00:51:01] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah, for the year. I know! For the year she's here. She pledged for the year. That's so fun. Right? Isn't that so sweet? So now Laura will be joining us and she actually joined us in the Discord chat for tonight's episode.

[00:51:15] ILISSA TENIO: We just welcome you to our network and we are gonna enjoy getting to know you and we're hoping that you're gonna do the Discord with us each week when we talk about Pretty Little Liars because she loves Pretty Little Liars. I'm so excited

[00:51:29] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: to have another buddy who loves PLL. Yeah, the more the merrier.

[00:51:32] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: The more the merrier. I want to

[00:51:34] ILISSA TENIO: hear all your thoughts. Yep. Why don't you tell everyone about our Patreon, Michelle? Our Patreon is

[00:51:40] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: a fun place, y'all. We have different tiers, uh, our Upper Easter, Upper Easter's, our Upper East Siders tier and that includes our Discord chat. So that's what Lyss was referencing throughout this episode.

[00:51:53] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: You can join us every week as we watch, uh, Pretty Little Liars live. And then we also, uh, once a month have a [00:52:00] live show so you can join us live and Watch us recap. And that's just fun because, you know, all the mishaps that ensue when you're

[00:52:06] ILISSA TENIO: live. Yeah, I mean, the background falling over, the light, whatever.

[00:52:11] ILISSA TENIO: And then last week, if you watched visual, we had reactions on Michelle's computer apparently. And so fireworks, fireworks went off. Um, it was very, we were just, I was rolling. I thought it was so fun. It's a good time though. And then

[00:52:24] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: you get to meet people with. Uh, the same interest and you talk about TV and we talk about everything and you have access to our Discord chat and you also get to join our birthday club and ultimately your support means everything to us and we're just so thankful.

[00:52:38] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: And the link is in the show notes if you want to check

[00:52:40] ILISSA TENIO: us out. We also have a listener survey going around. Yes, we

[00:52:45] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: want to know more about you. Please, please, please. We've already had so many of you take it, but if you are new and you just found us, we would love to just learn more about you. So please, if you have a couple of moments, fill out our survey, the link is in our show notes.[00:53:00]

[00:53:00] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Thank you.

[00:53:02] ILISSA TENIO: All right. Let's go into some ice cream. Yeah. Let's get some. Let's get hungry. Dessert. So Mike, Mike has called the Rosewood shop now Lucky Leon's Laddle from your suggestion last week, Michelle, that we should be calling it from Lucky Leon's shop. Laddle? Laddle? Is it ladle? Ladle? Sorry, ladle.

[00:53:21] ILISSA TENIO: He's gonna, he's gonna get me that for that one. I might edit that out. No, keep that in. Lucky Leon's ladle, whoopsie, since he is the owner of the shop. So this week's flavor is, sounds delicious, Ben Jerry's Changing is Brewing. Cold brew ice cream with marshmallow swirls and fudge brownies. Change is definitely brewing in Rosewood this week.

[00:53:45] ILISSA TENIO: The. Biggest being the loss of our sketchy Tim Riggins. What, well, we do understand why he's leaving. What does this mean for our beloved Caleb? It's a good thing ice cream has brownies in it. It will help us deal with the heartache. Like the [00:54:00] swirls of marshmallows in the flavor, Aria is trying to turn up the romance in her love life.

[00:54:05] ILISSA TENIO: But is as, but, Is it Ezra she wants to be swirled in the blankets with, or is there a change of partner in the future? While on the topic of Jason, it looks like Spencer and Emily's impression of him has changed from creeper to stalker. Poor Emily, instead of enjoying the cold brew ice cream, looks like she'll be getting the cold shoulder from Oliver now that A has interfered with her love life.

[00:54:27] ILISSA TENIO: This episode has us enjoying each minute, or should I say, spoonful. Thank you, Michael. Very good. That's so good. You know what I wanted to mention earlier, you know, since I'm on my, like, Jason train, but Aria was like, when Emily questioned why Aria was kind of relaxing to the fact that she was into Jason, she's like, you guys thought Toby was guilty.

[00:54:51] ILISSA TENIO: And look at where Toby is now. And I was like, good point, Aria. Yeah, sure. Point for Aria. I forgot to mention that when we [00:55:00] talked about it. Valid. Very valid. I felt like that was a good point, you know? Yeah.

[00:55:04] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: But what does that mean about how Aria actually feels about Jason? Right. Oh, that's true. Because look at where Toby is

[00:55:10] ILISSA TENIO: now.

[00:55:10] ILISSA TENIO: Right. And with Spencer. Right. Mm hmm. Good point. All right, it's time to do a little MVP and shittiest. Does everyone have an MVP for this episode? I do. Well, we'll start with Kirsten since she's the guest.

[00:55:28] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Uh, I think that Hannah's the MVP of the episode. Nice. She works through a lot of her issues with her own family.

[00:55:35] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: She talks Caleb through his problems with his mom and gets him to make the choice that's right for him. I am not. What's, like, what she wants. Yep. I just feel like she was so mature in this

[00:55:45] ILISSA TENIO: episode. Yeah, she was great. I love her. What'd you have, Michelle? I had Ashley. I also had Ashley. That's great. Yeah. I just

[00:55:54] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: love, love, love the way she treated Emily and just accepts her for who she is and just [00:56:00] saying that the fact of like this is your house too and she just came at that angle with lots of love and acceptance.

[00:56:07] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I'm here for

[00:56:07] ILISSA TENIO: it. Me too. Yeah. Loved

[00:56:10] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: it. Yeah. That's good. And they're like the poorest family and yet the most welcoming and nice to all the other kids. So true. Which I really appreciate. So true.

[00:56:19] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. I honestly struggled with the shittiest. Do you guys have a shittiest? Kirsten, do you have a shittiest?

[00:56:26] ILISSA TENIO: I have, I

[00:56:27] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: have a shittiest.

[00:56:28] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Okay, good. I would love, we

[00:56:29] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: want to hear it. Uh, it's Jason. He's a creep. He's a certified creep. He's confirmed to be taking photos of Aria. I, and. Yeah. He, uh, kissed an

[00:56:41] ILISSA TENIO: underage girl, so. Yeah. Okay, we'll go with it. Yeah. I, I, I will do it. I will go with that because I really struggled.

[00:56:51] ILISSA TENIO: I wanted to give it to maybe like Garrett or Jenna, but like. Right. Been there, done that. You know, like. Right. They're not shit. I mean, they're shitty, but. They didn't do anything. They didn't do anything [00:57:00] specific in this episode. Yeah. But Jason's looking not He's looking real bad. He's looking real bad. I wonder just

[00:57:07] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: how we're going to do this and spin this.

[00:57:09] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: It's like, it's not even Jason's photos. He's just developing them.

[00:57:13] ILISSA TENIO: Hmm. I

[00:57:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: don't think that's the case, but, because why would he even do

[00:57:17] ILISSA TENIO: that? Well, whose photos would it be then? I don't know.

[00:57:21] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Well, but why would he develop more than one? Like, you see one creepy photo, why would

[00:57:25] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: you keep going?

[00:57:26] ILISSA TENIO: That's true.

[00:57:27] ILISSA TENIO: That's right. Great point. Great point again. Yeah. I don't know. Right? We can't, we can't justify this for Jason. No. Um, I was going to give this like a, a six on a cringe meter today. What would you guys rate it out of 10 on cringe? Because the super zooms. And the triple zooms, um, I, I haven't laughed out loud in an episode in a while and I laughed out loud.

[00:57:52] ILISSA TENIO: So, I might even go seven. Whoa. Kirsten, what

[00:57:56] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: are you reacting to?

[00:57:57] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I, I might be with you on like a, like a [00:58:00] seven because it's just I feel like there was multiple really cringy things throughout. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:58:08] ILISSA TENIO: I don't know. Yeah. I feel like we had a lot of people that were uncomfortable watching Aria and Ezra and Jason together, like all that stuff going on too.

[00:58:17] ILISSA TENIO: Like I didn't particularly think that part was cringy, but I could see why people wouldn't like that. Yeah. I found last week cringier. Okay. With Emily collapsing on the floor. That was cringy. In the hospital. I think, what did you rank last week? I don't remember. I think we did a, I think we did a f I think we did a six.

[00:58:34] ILISSA TENIO: I think we did a six.

[00:58:34] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I literally listened to it today and I can't remember what you wrote.

[00:58:38] ILISSA TENIO: Girl, we can't remember yet. I can't remember this morning. I can't even remember

[00:58:41] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: what we talked about 20 minutes ago. So, you know, I couldn't tell you, you know, who our MVP is. Yeah, maybe last week I just felt it was more corny, cheesy.

[00:58:54] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: But this, yeah, I'll give it a six. I'm with you guys. I'm with you.

[00:58:59] ILISSA TENIO: We'll [00:59:00] give it a six. It's just creepy. It's just like the creep the smirking, the Jason smirking in the red room, like that was so funny to me.

[00:59:08] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: I think I blocked that out. Like, I don't remember that happening. My brain is protecting me from

[00:59:13] ILISSA TENIO: it.

[00:59:13] ILISSA TENIO: Your brain was like, too much. Nope. Yeah. Yeah. I wish I could forget it, but I can't. It's too bad. Uh, we're at the end of the episode where I'm going to give Michelle the title for our next week's episode, which is episode 10. So we're making double digits and you'll make a little, uh, prediction about what's going to happen next week.

[00:59:33] ILISSA TENIO: So the episode title is Touched by an Angel, A gel. Cute. And my secret to reveal to you is that I've got a secret. I've got a secret. I've got a secret. Our girl Jackie comes to the school for college day to represent Hollis with Ezra. Okay, love it.

[00:59:58] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I know you love it. Love it, love [01:00:00] it, love it. I am disappointed though that we didn't see Jenna get this vision.

[01:00:05] ILISSA TENIO: Well, not yet. She's only a candidate. I know, but I was really She can't have surgery like in, you know, 24 hours. Sure she can. She has to probably get medical clearance, you know. I do know. How it goes. I do know. I do know. Michelle, you had Lisa. I know. You know how it goes. I know.

[01:00:23] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Twice. And still, and they still have glasses.

[01:00:26] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Still have glasses. When they talked about the eye flaps, I have PTSD. I was like, I, literally, that was making me like, just uncomfortable when, yeah, at lunch.

[01:00:36] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: No, I can't, I can't get LASIK, I'm too, I mean, I don't think I'd be a candidate anyways, because I have endostigmatism, but I'm also just like, Too afraid.

[01:00:44] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: And one of, I, like one of my friends got LASIK and I was like, oh, tell me exactly what happened, like each step so that I won't be afraid anymore. And then he described it and I was like, I'm more afraid than ever. So. Mm-Hmm. could never be me. I'll just wear glasses. It's fine.

[01:00:58] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Uh, I now have a [01:01:00] fear of the eye doctor.

[01:01:01] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I'll just say that like big, like I used to love it and now I really fear it. But next week, uh. What was that predict? What was that secret? Oh, yes. Okay, Jackie. You wanted Jenna to see. Yeah, well, yes, but okay, so Jackie and Ezra, I hope that they have to be at the same table because they're representing Hollis and so this is going to make Aria feel uncomfortable but maybe not because maybe now she's just going to be thinking about Jason and so she won't, it won't even like.

[01:01:32] ILISSA TENIO: So she, she won't, uh, be mad if Ezra and Jackie kind of get chummy? Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

[01:01:38] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: I wonder if Jason This is just a college fair? Yeah. For some reason I could see Jason there. Like, just working a table for Oh, come to me if you're feeling Like, you need someone to talk to.

[01:01:48] ILISSA TENIO: I think he's probably bored, right?

[01:01:50] ILISSA TENIO: He is bored. He probably has nothing going on, you know? That's why he's like, fawning over, fawning, fawning over Arya, like, over Arya, [01:02:00] you know? Like, there's nothing else to do. I guess I'll just be inappropriate and look at all these high school girls and then go to high school again and, yeah, he's living in a fantasy world, I think.

[01:02:11] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Question for you, and maybe you don't know yet, but do we attend Tom's wedding? Because if we're doing all of this I'm assuming we are gonna actually see Hannah go to this wedding, which last week it was six weeks away. Right. So, she's gotta get in touch. I'm

[01:02:28] ILISSA TENIO: sure that number is gonna change at some point.

[01:02:32] ILISSA TENIO: Sure. I'm sure the writers are gonna like, fudge that somehow. I don't remember, I'm in my, in my re watch now, I haven't gotten up to any of that yet, but. We will get some more, we'll get her doing the bridesmaid stuff, but I don't remember the wedding per se. So, it could have, it's very well could have happened.

[01:02:52] ILISSA TENIO: Carson, do you have a recollection of any wedding? I'm in this, I'm

[01:02:55] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: on the same page as you, like, I know that more stuff wedding related [01:03:00] is definitely gonna happen, but. The wedding itself not really coming to mind, right?

[01:03:07] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah, I was just thinking like that's what she'd be doing next week is going bridesmaid fitting shopping.

[01:03:14] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: But maybe next week, actually, we will have the girls. Tell Aria what they found and you know the pictures and then Aria be like, what do you No, I don't. No, I don't think so. No way. You must, I don't think, you know what you saw . Yeah. My Long Island just came out. Saw to hear that it really came through. Yeah, I said it.

[01:03:36] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: But yeah, that's, I think that's what we're gonna be preoccupied with. We'll have this college fair Danby stuff, I think is gonna be danby. There and then you know, hey, Jason's a creep. He has close ups of your lips And then Jason maybe she'll like approach him about it. And he'll like what are you talking about?

[01:03:56] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Oh He'll be like go look at my shed. It's not a what are you [01:04:00] talking about? And nothing will be in there It'll just be like camping equipment.

[01:04:03] ILISSA TENIO: Totally Yeah, camping equipment. Yes. Yes

[01:04:08] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: That's my predictions. Those are my predictions. Love

[01:04:10] ILISSA TENIO: it. Thank you. Thank you. And that's, that's it. That's all we have for you tonight.

[01:04:16] ILISSA TENIO: Yeah. Kirsten, thank you so, so much for joining us. Please tell our listeners where they can find you.

[01:04:25] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Uh, yes, so currently only one of my podcasts is actually producing episodes, and that's Mess Magnets, where every week we talk about pop culture, celeb gossip, trending topics. Um, we talked about all the Golden Globes drama this week, which was really fun.

[01:04:40] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: Whisper,

[01:04:40] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: whisper, what were they

[01:04:41] KIRSTEN MACINNIS: saying? All the TikTok lip readers were out, you know. So good. I love it. I love it. Uh, and then if you want to see anything else from me, you can follow me everywhere at Kirsten Said What.

[01:04:52] ILISSA TENIO: Love it. And it will be in the description for the episode. If you're curious, you can just click away.

[01:04:58] ILISSA TENIO: And we thank you all [01:05:00] so much. Thank you again, Kirsten. It's been such a pleasure. And we'll see you next week. Wow. Bye.

[01:05:09] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: Thank you so much for listening to We Are Liars, a Pretty Little Liars podcast. You can email us at weareliarspod at gmail. com. If you're interested in seeing what we do with this show and all of our others, head over to Instagram and search TotalBetty Podcast Network.

[01:05:24] MICHELLE RUBINSTEIN: This has been

[01:05:24] ILISSA TENIO: a TotalBetty podcast produced and edited by Ilissa Tenio and Michelle Rubinstein. Music by Anthony Viccora.